The phrase "Men are objectively superior to women"

[creator20]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   All this because the OP didn't clearly contextualize the entire situations she heard the phrase 'men are objectively superior to women'. We don't know anything about the situations the phrases are used, we don't know from the OP the nature of her relationships to the men that uttered the phrase, we don't know enough to say they got defensive first or are provoked by OP's behavior/communication.

   So far, there's so little context that advice is limited down to 'don't be triggered by such phrasing'. I hope OP is willing to give detailed explanation of the context of the phrasing because guessing work isn't my strong suit and it saves time and energy for all involved.

(So first off just to address the direction this forum has gone in; The forum has went into the direction of "Men are on average physically stronger than women" and I'm not trying to debate obvious biological occurrences that men on average tend to be physically stronger and larger in size than women (Although of course there are edge cases where this is not always true). I'm also not denying that in some facets of life men tend to be more adept to do certain things than women are & vice versa. I acknowledge both sexes have inherent strengths & weaknesses.) People trying to give fact based arguments about how men are more superior at X, Y, Z as opposed to women doesn't interest me. What I wanted to get to the bottom of in this post is why men (Not all men, but at least the one's I've experienced) feel the need to assert some sort of dominance over women on a consistent basis. I'm aware this might just be an occurrence that I'm dealing with personally that isn't that common among other people, but nonetheless I have experienced this & I know many of my other female friends have experienced random undermining by men for seemingly no apparent reason.

It's difficult to explain the context in which these things happen to me because there is no one specific occurrence I'm speaking about due to the frequency in which it happens. But to name one specific context I was speaking to a male friend talking about how I wanted to become a manager at work and the conversation went immediately to, "Women can't be managers. Have you ever had a woman manager? Women are too emotional to handle positions of power. Men are superior at those things." 

Another occurrence, (Which I did not explain well in the OP), was when I was driving my guy friend to his friend's house & he felt the need to assert to me that men were better drivers than women. We went into this entire discussion about how men were 'objectively' superior to women in terms of driving & survival in general. But I just did not see how this was a relevant conversation. In a society where we aren't facing too many physical threats all the time, why are we fixated on men having better survival skills than women & feeling the need to bring that up in an undermining way to try & establish our own superiority over someone else? 

My issue is not people wanting to have an unbiased fact based discussion on which ways men perform better than women & women better than men & vice versa, but the men who have these conversations with me aren't seeking to have a productive conversation about psychological/biological differences between the sexes. It seems as if the men in my life are always trying to assert their superiority over me in order to undermine me. This could be due to my personality type as I've always been a logical, rational, quick-witted, what some might say 'male-minded' with the way I go about things. I embody a lot of masculine traits & I think this is rubbing the men in my life the wrong way to the point where the men in my life see me as a threat or a competition rather than a womanly counterpart or fundamentally different in nature for lack of better wording. I'm being put on the same competitive playing field as the men in my life for whatever reason & I wanted to understand more about why/how to rectify this. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by creator20

[Epikur]

@creator20

There are many possible reasons. Men in general do compete with each other alot. If you give a masculine vibe that could trigger his competitive mode. In that mode it's mostly about winning an interaction.

[creator20]

9 hours ago, Toby said:

If course men are superior in specific areas of life. But why even talk about it? Doesn't make any sense.

Agreed. I don't mind an actual productive conversation on how men tend to be more adept at certain things than women are or vice versa. But the men I'm in contact with aren't seeking to have any productive discussion imo. The discussion just derails into how they are objectively the more superior sex & they get wildly defensive about it. Also to be quite honest as a woman it's an awkward thing to have to hear a man always assert to me how much more superior he is or hypothetically would be at the things I'm doing. It puts me in a weird place of feeling the need to defend my sex & the capabilities of women, but at the same time I also realize that there is no point in conversing because they are only bringing up their superiority as a coping mechanism because they truly feel inadequate. If it was an 'objective fact' to these men that they were "objectively superior to women" I feel like it wouldn't even be a discussion. I mean people don't sit around all day & debate facts like "The grass is green." So if these men truly felt as if their superiority was fact based, why do they feel a need to even debate it with me? 

[creator20]

Just now, Epikur said:

@creator20

There are many possible reasons. Men in general do compete with each other alot. If you give a masculine vibe that could trigger his competitive mode. In that mode it's mostly about winning an interaction.

I can understand that, but it's just odd to me that this I'm even put on this same playing field. I don't want to be seen as competition or a threat to my significant other or to other men in my life just for operating in life how I prefer to operate. I am partly to blame for this because I don't display a lot of overt femininity in my daily interactions/actions, but when I try to force what these men view as appropriate femininity I feel as if I'm being inauthentic to myself.

[Jennjenn]

4 minutes ago, creator20 said:

I know many of my other female friends have experienced random undermining by men for seemingly no apparent reason.

this has happened to me as well, i've had a couple men come to my apartment and randomly start commenting about things, like my water filter for example, why do i have it there instead of over there?, just the most random stuff, i always get the sense that they feel like I need their guidance or something, it turns me off. 

10 minutes ago, creator20 said:

superior to women in terms of driving & survival in general

I drive in nyc, very 50/50 between men and women. I once got a ticket and went to pay it at the dmv. 95% of the people paying were men...

I'm very good at parallel parking, and a female friend of mine told me: "my husband says you should not brake the car so much while backing up or you wont be able to park..." I finished parking without any issue and I told her to "stop listening to your husband, he just wants you to think that you're not good at driving, it's not true, you drive better than him"

18 minutes ago, creator20 said:

This could be due to my personality type as I've always been a logical, rational, quick-witted, what some might say 'male-minded' with the way I go about things. I embody a lot of masculine traits & I think this is rubbing the men in my life the wrong way to

Yes. And they're full of micro and macro aggressions. They do the same with other man, lots of trash talk... ignore them, avoid them, keep doing you. 

[Fran11]

 

10 minutes ago, creator20 said:

 But the men I'm in contact with aren't seeking to have any productive discussion imo. The discussion just derails into how they are objectively the more superior sex & they get wildly defensive about it. 

Sounds like you are in contact with very immature men.

If you can't/don't want to cut them out of your life, at least avoid these can of conversations with such simple minded people, let them be with their ignorance, it can't be helped

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Fran11

[w4read]

@creator20 Seems like they are just acting childish. And maybe this is cliche to say, but sounds like you should find other men to hang around. Occasional comments about practical things can come from men who are interested in that and genuinely wants to help you, but the first examples seem pretty off to me

[creator20]

Just now, Jennjenn said:

this has happened to me as well, i've had a couple men come to my apartment and randomly start commenting about things, like my water filter for example, why do i have it there instead of over there?, just the most random stuff, i always get the sense that they feel like I need their guidance or something, it turns me off. 

I drive in nyc, very 50/50 between men and women. I once got a ticket and went to pay it at the dmv. 95% of the people paying were men...

I'm very good at parallel parking, and a female friend of mine told me: "my husband says you should not brake the car so much while backing up or you wont be able to park..." I finished parking without any issue and I told her to "stop listening to your husband, he just wants you to think that you're not good at driving, it's not true, you drive better than him"

Yes. And they're full of micro and macro aggressions. They do the same with other man, lots of trash talk... ignore them, avoid them, keep doing you. 

It's always been a difficult balance between masculinity & femininity in my life. When I was more overtly feminine, I would get disrespected by men & told that I'm too clingy & too emotional. As a result of this, I switched toward portraying a more masculine personae. I became emotionally detached, more logical conversationally, more extroverted, etc... & this has backfired on me as well because now instead of getting degraded for being too feminine, now I just get degraded for not being feminine enough. It's like I'm not even seen as a woman anymore. I'm a conversational threat. I'm a competition. It's like I'm the bad guy for being too feminine & now I'm the bad guy for being too masculine. I just can't seem to effectively strike this balance between being seen as a desirable feminine woman, but independent, ambitious, & strong minded at the same time.

[Fran11]

Just now, creator20 said:

 now instead of getting degraded for being too feminine, now I just get degraded for not being feminine enough.

I dom't know the context, but it seems the "degradation" is not about your lack/abundance of femininity, but rather they are just looking for reasons to be offensive.

Only you can evaluate if your masculine/feminine balance is healty.

[Jennjenn]

agree. Also date older men. 35+
sometimes those micro aggressions are signs of immaturity. 

[creator20]

Just now, Fran11 said:

I dom't know the context, but it seems the "degradation" is not about your lack/abundance of femininity, but rather they are just looking for reasons to be offensive.

Only you can evaluate if your masculine/feminine balance is healty.

Just to clarify, I choose the word "degrade" because I have been told verbatim that "You are the reason that men hate women" & comments similar to that back when I was more in tune (Maybe a little too in tune) with my feminine side.

But you're right. It's just hard to determine whether I am in a good balance or not because I have a lot of masculine traits that I exhibit although I don't really consider them to be inherently 'masculine'- The men around me do so it throws me off as to how they expect me to act, conversate, live my life. As for appearance, I look very feminine. I work out a lot, I'm shapely, I wear makeup, I dress feminine. I suppose it's just my mindset & the way I approach things that throw them off.

[creator20]

Just now, Jennjenn said:

agree. Also date older men. 35+
sometimes those micro aggressions are signs of immaturity. 

I would but I'm 19 so I'm not sure if I'd have too much in common with them lol

[Neuroknot]

5 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

agree. Also date older men. 35+
sometimes those micro aggressions are signs of immaturity. 

Age is a factor in terms of maturity, but mostly because having more years= having more opportunities to experience "life". But it doesn't mean that you could find another 19 year old that is mature enough for you. 

[Jennjenn]

@creator20 yeah no hahaha don't do it. But that means that you're surrounded by 19 year olds as well, they are like that, my son is 11 and he would say things like that, i try to correct him but i can also see how this is part of his development and trying to fit himself into this big world. So yeah, I think their comments have nothing to do with you but more with how they're trying to fit themselves in society. 

You are just 19 are you're so insightful and eloquent already, imagine yourself in 10 years?? You can do anything, don't let anyone stop you. 

[Parththakkar12]

7 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Look at you creating rocks when we can create babies for the same amount of pain! 

I hope you kept that stone preciously.

It could maybe be the ideal birth present for your wife someday. "The birthing compassion stone". Lol!

 

How would that be a present?! Having a stone just sucks. I don't know what good can come out of it. Very different from giving birth, cuz it's worth it.

[Preety_India]

 

They have the nerve to say that women are inferior when they are born from women. 

Men who think that women are inferior are the sole reason why women were held back for so many years 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Preety_India

[Yog]

57 minutes ago, datamonster said:

I don't think this is necessarily true.

While women in politics and business seem to work really good right now, those countries and business that are more open to put more women in power tend to be quite developed already, around stage green.

So, it's not gender that leads to less violence and war, it's their level of development and that of their culture that does, I think.

If you were to put a stage red/blue women in charge of a stage red/blue group I don't think there would be a lot less violence and war.

Just to add a thing or few.

M/F aggression ratio on average is more like 60/40. So its not that big of a difference actually.

The thing is, we like to see violence as direct, confrontational and physical, aka masculine violence.

It can also be covert, indirect, scheme-like and manipulative. Females have their own dominance hierarchies and can be just as aggressive as men if undeveloped.  So in a sense its all a question of development.

Our lack of understanding of statistics has a big role in this too.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Yog

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, datamonster said:

I don't think this is necessarily true.

While women in politics and business seem to work really well right now, those countries and businesses that are more open to put more women in power tend to be quite developed already, around stage green.

So, it's not gender that leads to less violence and war, it's their level of development and that of their culture that does, I think.

If you were to put a stage red/blue women in charge of a stage red/blue group I don't think there would be a lot less violence and war.

I agree stage of development is a factor as well. Also a factor, is that men tend to be more aggressive, competitive, argumentative and hostile. Even on this forum, nearly all aggressive, argumentative, hostile users are males. Perhaps that has to do higher testosterone levels, genetics and social conditioning. Women tend to be more empathetic and compassionate, on average - similar to how men are physically more aggressive and intellectual on average. Women tend to embody stage green much easier than men. And even at stage yellow, most men are intellect-dominant and have major gaps in green development. They will intellectualize empathy into concepts without the embodiment of empathy. 

Yet I wouldn't predict everything would be roses, butterflies and harmony if women had the lion's share of power. Women aren't pure angels and there would still be problems. Imagine if Sarah Palin become president. There are various factors at play. 

[Bodigger]

16 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I had a 20mm kidney stone and was told by women it’s on par with giving birth. Thank goodness for dilaudid. It was a rough ride.   

Please tell us that you didn't give birth to that bad boy naturally and had a cesarean delivery.

16 hours ago, Forestluv said:

C’mon. Men on average are more aggressive, physically violent and physically confrontational. If women had 90% of the power in the world, there would be fewer wars. There would be other problems, yet physical violence would decrease. 

In my experience, having three daughters, women would guilt and shame the opposition until they developed an eating disorder or something like that LOL.  I have worked in road construction for decades (A masculine atmosphere) and I am now working in the accounting and programming department (A feminine atmosphere).  I find that men would have short, violent battles, where women will have long, drawn out wars, which last forever.  I prefer the short battle, but guess what, I'm a man.  Love you all

[Consept]

20 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Please tell us that you didn't give birth to that bad boy naturally and had a cesarean delivery.

In my experience, having three daughters, women would guilt and shame the opposition until they developed an eating disorder or something like that LOL.  I have worked in road construction for decades (A masculine atmosphere) and I am now working in the accounting and programming department (A feminine atmosphere).  I find that men would have short, violent battles, where women will have long, drawn out wars, which last forever.  I prefer the short battle, but guess what, I'm a man.  Love you all

I agree with you somewhat here. Another example is that in relationships men that abuse women usually do so predominantly physically, obviously because on average men are stronger than women so they use that to their advantage. But women can and do abuse men mentally and emotionally as they, on average have a higher EQ. So in both cases there is a potential power differential its just that a more rounded, empathetic person wont use that to take advantage but of course some do. The difference i believe is that domestic abuse is seen to be a male dominated thing and the idea of it is through physical dominance but according to the stats its much more closer, something like 40% of domestic abuse is by women. Because its seen to be male dominated you get things like much less refuges or help for men and also women can, if they are taking advantage of the man, use that to blame the man and its quite easy for them to be believed as is the case with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. 

To me the domestic abuse problem isnt necessarily a gender issue its more people will use whatever tools they have if they want to manipulate and dominate someone.