The phrase "Men are objectively superior to women"

[creator20]

Let me just start off by saying I don't find this phrase to be true in the slightest. I don't think that you can apply a subjective notion of 'superiority' to something as complex as human beings without any specific measurable benchmarks. I think it is ludicrous how someone could sit & say that "Because I am a man, I am more superior than women at every possible thing ever." It just doesn't hold up factually. I am a woman & for some reason I have this conversation with men more frequently than I'd like. The men I've spoken to always feel almost a neurotic need to always assert to me that "Men are objectively superior to women." It just comes out of absolutely nowhere. I could be driving my car with a guy friend & he would be like "You know men are objectively superior to women when it comes to driving." Is this just insecurity? Is there a reason why I'm attracting male figures in my life who always feel the need to assert this for seemingly no reason? Guess I'm just searching for some more understanding on why this is even a conversation that needs to be had, but it's pretty awkward every time it happens considering that I am a woman & have to listen to the men in my life constantly try to, without warrant, force their notion of superiority onto me all the time.

Edited September 15, 2020 by creator20

[purerogue]

You probably can't, first of all because of bias, second because your interaction sample is way to small compared to size of population, not to mention that culture, social background can play huge role too. 

Best you can do is give opinion and back it up with statistic , or something that would make sense. 

 

Quote

 The men I've spoken to always feel almost a neurotic need to always assert to me that "Men are objectively superior to women." It just comes out of absolutely nowhere. I could be driving my car with a guy friend & he would be like "You know men are objectively superior to women when it comes to driving." Is this just insecurity? Is there a reason why I'm attracting male figures in my life who always feel the need to assert this for seemingly no reason? 

I have no clue how thous conversations went, but it just might be some kind of way for them to try and get your attention, just like trying to be funny, guys tend to do stupid things like that. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by purerogue

[Preety_India]

It's just sexism. 

Gender can flow in any direction and every gender can show different qualities or abilities. Is one superior to another? The thing is every quality is unique in its own way and cannot be calibrated as inferior or superior. 

Therefore such a comparison is null /void. 

Embracing uniqueness is what we need to do. 

Comparisons are for lower people. 

 

The people who compare are devoid of empathy. They focus more on division rather than unity. 

The same goes to people who constantly compare races. 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Preety_India

[Bodigger]

Funny how this topic comes up at this time for me.  After almost three years, I recently decided to leave a bible study group because I felt they were too closed minded and were not willing to be open minded about such subjects.  I have learned many things about the dogmatic thinking of such individuals, but I think it has now run it's course for the I in me.  I hold my wife, to an equally Loving partner in this life.  I Love them all, and Love you all.

[Toby]

If course men are superior in specific areas of life. But why even talk about it? Doesn't make any sense.

[Bodigger]

2 minutes ago, Toby said:

If course men are superior in specific areas of life. But why even talk about it? Doesn't make any sense.

Because this is a consciousness forum and many men think that women are not capable of reaching the same levels of consciousness as men.  This is not true by the way.

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Funny how this topic comes up at this time for me.  After almost three years, I recently decided to leave a bible study group because I felt they were too closed minded and were not willing to be open minded about such subjects.  I have learned many things about the dogmatic thinking of such individuals, but I think it has now run it's course for the I in me.  I hold my wife, to an equally Loving partner in this life.  I Love them all, and Love you all.

Are you considering filling that spiritual void? I'd imagine there are some Christian groups that are more open-minded about equality. There are some church groups in my area that are very open and inclusive - as well as "spiritual but not religious" groups. 

[Bodigger]

3 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Are you considering filling that spiritual void? I'd imagine there are some Christian groups that are more open-minded about equality. There are some church groups in my area that are very open and inclusive - as well as "spiritual but not religious" groups. 

Yes....I have many things in the bucket.  This particular void will get filled.  With what, I am not sure of at this time, but until then it will be meditation with Life purpose intention. 

[Epikur]

Some might qualify themselves because they feel small compared to you, maybe.

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Bodigger said:

Yes....I have many things in the bucket.  This particular void will get filled.  With what, I am not sure of at this time, but until then it will be meditation with Life purpose intention. 

I’m curious: in general is your Life Purpose intention mostly focused on family, community or personal development/goals? Or perhaps a combination?

[mandyjw]

Our own belief in superiority and inferiority is the core issue. At its heart, it has nothing to do with men or women. 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, datamonster said:

Yeah, that would be called a competition?! I'm not sure I understand what you're saying...

We could t split men as short men or tall men and see who is better at math. Then we can split the short men into short skinny men vs short fat men to see who is better at math. Then compare tall skinny men vs tall fat men.. . . Then we can compare short skinny men with brown eyes to short skinny men with blue eyes to see who is better at math. Then we can split and compare. . . 

[Consept]

13 minutes ago, datamonster said:

And then what? What is the point? I still don't get it

His point is that comparing men and women based on gender is arbitrary and you might as well use whatever metric. 

[Consept]

39 minutes ago, datamonster said:

We distinguish based on gender, age, weight, etc. all the time.

Of course, it is arbitrary but it makes sense in certain situations, doesn't it?

Or do you want to see a boxing competition where a 35 year old heavy weight guy fights against a 14 year old school girl? 

But is it a good way to measure whether someone is better than another? like for example Floyd Mayweather might lose to an average heavyweight but does that make the heavyweight a better boxer? 

[Bodigger]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

I’m curious: in general is your Life Purpose intention mostly focused on family, community or personal development/goals? Or perhaps a combination?

Well, I have three daughters, hence the topic to me is a little personal, and the eldest is about to give birth to a daughter and our first grandchild.  I have been enjoying time with my twelve year old as we are working on consciousness together.  So, family and personal development make up a large part of my Life Purpose.  All that you have mentioned are part of my Life Purpose since I am very involved in our community of recovery from addictions.

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Our own belief in superiority and inferiority is the core issue. At its heart, it has nothing to do with men or women. 

How True.  In the past I was into racing such as in running, biking, archery, triathlon, biathlon, and snowmobiles.  I have a ton of trophies, and today, they mean absolutely nothing to me, because they remind me of how little I felt about myself.....and that includes when I would win.  Thanks to Leo, this Forum, and others in my life I can now begin to see the light.  Love you all...

[Danioover9000]

@creator20

6 hours ago, creator20 said:

Let me just start off by saying I don't find this phrase to be true in the slightest. I don't think that you can apply a subjective notion of 'superiority' to something as complex as human beings without any specific measurable benchmarks. I think it is ludicrous how someone could sit & say that "Because I am a man, I am more superior than women at every possible thing ever." It just doesn't hold up factually. I am a woman & for some reason I have this conversation with men more frequently than I'd like. The men I've spoken to always feel almost a neurotic need to always assert to me that "Men are objectively superior to women." It just comes out of absolutely nowhere. I could be driving my car with a guy friend & he would be like "You know men are objectively superior to women when it comes to driving." Is this just insecurity? Is there a reason why I'm attracting male figures in my life who always feel the need to assert this for seemingly no reason? Guess I'm just searching for some more understanding on why this is even a conversation that needs to be had, but it's pretty awkward every time it happens considering that I am a woman & have to listen to the men in my life constantly try to, without warrant, force their notion of superiority onto me all the time.

   What did you do or say that triggered these men in the first place to defend male superiority?

[Jennjenn]

3 hours ago, datamonster said:

Back in the days when humans lived in tribes and small villages it sorta made sense that women raise the kids while the men go hunting or work on the fields, simply because men are normally stronger by nature

I’ve never understood this argument. It seems to me like some type of romantic telling written by a weak male ego. 
Because staying at the village all day while keeping kids alive in a hostile and wild environment like the village, don’t seem to me like an easy task. The women would have to manage their survival plus the survival of the future generation while the men would be gone for days at a time, or maybe forever, that’s why there was usually one men for several woman because men will keep dying. So isn’t the one who survives the stronger one? 
 

And thinking about, the arrangement that men would go out and risk their lives sounds like it was because males were more expendable. Survival was harder at that time, and a woman needs almost one year to develop a new human, while you only need one man to impregnate several women. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Jennjenn

[Bodigger]

7 minutes ago, datamonster said:

@Jennjenn It's a fact that men are physically stronger than woman on average. That's just genetics.

And when survival is on the line it makes sense to let the physically strong ones do the most physically demanding job.

Also do you think it would be wise for a pregnant woman to go hunting?

 I understand what you are saying but have you ever witnessed the birth of a baby?  I sure am glad I'm a man...….I don't think I can handle that LOL....

We have different strength's and weaknesses and we depend on the others strength's to lift us through this life.  What a wonderful thing....this is how I see it.....now.

25 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

And thinking about, the arrangement that men would go out and risk their lives sounds like it was because males were more expendable. Survival was harder at that time, and a woman needs almost one year to develop a new human, while you only need one man to impregnate several women. 

Good point.  I never thought of men being expendable....that's funny, with some truth.

[Jennjenn]

@datamonster how are we measuring strength? Are we talking physical, mental, spiritual or pain threshold strength? And which one is more important? Is just physical strength what has kept us alive for thousands of years? 
My point is that at *some point in history* someone who wrote a history book decided that when societies in immediate danger would say “women and children first” they were saying this because men were “stronger and superior, able to stand more pain”, when it was about survival ONLY. If I want my bloodline to survive, who am I going to save first? I need all the women, all the children, and if I get one man that’s plenty. You see it’s not about whose stronger. And yes,  that’s just a romantic story about men as heroes. In reality it was all about survival. 

[Danioover9000]

@datamonster

40 minutes ago, datamonster said:

I think it's about fairness and creating a more even playing field.

We create gender groups, age groups, weight classes, etc. because it's more fair to compare people with similar characteristics.

In boxing for example, more weight gives you an unfair advantage. So, we have weight classes to let fighters of similar weights compete. If you had 120kg dudes fight 60kg dudes, it wouldn't be fun for anybody. 

Even in things like math competitions we have age groups. If we didn't, 5th graders would compete against PhDs, it just doesn't make any sense.

Of course depending on the area, different distinctions are appropriate. In a math competition gender is kinda irrelevant, so we don't use this group. In sports gender often gives you a genetic advantage, so it makes to have gender groups.

It's just comparing apples with apples. Come on, guys. This is just common sense.

   I think when we are comparing, we are comparing for usefulness and for maintaining our models. However, those that compare to maintain modals instead of comparing for updating or replacing modals are the ones that are more threatened. For example with the people who hold the belief of male superiority, they generalize that as saying that all men are superior compared to women in all ways, instead of contextualizing that belief down. They also distort this view, especially if they identify strongly as a man and repeatedly experience life as a man and delete other bits of information that contradicts the meta programming of your self concept( I'm a male, I'm strong, I can handle pain, I can drink bear.) and worldview (I'm a patriot, I love my country, I love my stuff, this is my likes and body, I have these friends at bars. I live here, this is what I do and these are what I don't do or say.).

   Also good to not forget that evolution is still occurring.