Is There Free Will

[Focus Shift]

I thought it would be appropriate to post here considering I quoted from Leo's episode on Free Will quite a bit. At first glance, it seems as though we have free will, the ability to make choices, and so on. From the point of view of neuroscience, and even eastern philosophy, it can be difficult to argue we have free will, considering the self is a myth. If this is in fact the case, what would a society look like where determinism is the dominant philosophy?

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Focus Shift

[LarryW]

A perennial question, which I think is often held back by limited definitions. Please allow me to deconstruct your opening post a little. The original question is, 'Is There Free Will', then you go on to discuss whether 'we have free will'. To you that may be an insignificant difference, to me it is a very different question, as you are introducing selves (we), that possesses the free will. So you then have expanded it to three questions: what (if anything) is free will, what is the self, and what is the relationship between them? My view, is that free will exists, but not as a possession of the small self. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by LarryW

[justfortoday]

Short answer is no, you have no free will, because there is no “you”

[QandC]

No. But the illusion has great value, if used correctly.

Edited September 14, 2020 by QandC

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Focus Shift said:

If this is in fact the case, what would a society look like where determinism is the dominant philosophy?

We still "feel" like we have free will in many different ways, and it grounds our sense of personal responsibility. Even though it's an illusion, it's a useful one, not least on a collective level. If you rid people of any sense of personal responsibility, you would only ever see the chaotic and animalistic sides of humanity. A society that embraces determinism should do so not out of a denial of personal responsibility but rather as an effort to protect the individual. In other words, teach the importance of personal responsibility, but don't hurt or kill the people who don't get the memo.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Galyna]

@justfortoday short answer would be "yes" and "no"

Edited September 14, 2020 by Galyna

[Member]

8 hours ago, Galyna said:

@justfortoday short answer would be "yes" and "no"

?

And the ultimate answer would be yes, you have free will because there is nothing limiting you but you.

[Gesundheit]

What are we even talking about? Will? Freedom? What are these things? Do they actually exist?

[LastThursday]

11 hours ago, Focus Shift said:

If this is in fact the case, what would a society look like where determinism is the dominant philosophy?

There is no determinism either. We would need free will in order to be free to interpret what will be determined. If you follow me. Determinism cannot be absolute, because there's too much to be determined.

We really do need a permanent thread for these free will questions.

Edited September 14, 2020 by LastThursday

[Bulgarianspirit]

It really needs to be realized... For me at least.

I blame myself for the horror i have been through,because of falling in love, going through diseases and poverty.

Knowing god did this to me at least will give me some peace.

At some point i don't believe in free will... As thoughts feelings sensations come and go.

I wish i could take back time with what i know now... I would have never put myself through this hell(enlightment included)

[arlin]

13 hours ago, LarryW said:

My view, is that free will exists, but not as a possession of the small self.

This could also be a view.

 

2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

We really do need a permanent thread for these free will questions.

I also think this. This is really important, it's not something to take lightly. Because one could have a shift in consciousness, perhaps awakening, and give it different meaning whether there is free will or not. Or maybe one could have DP. Etc, etc.

I also think another episode on free will by leo would be great, he said that he would do it in the future so let's wait  

[Bulgarianspirit]

Most spiritual teachers say we have no free will, god acts through us, the egos are imagined and predetermined, i mean you get shaped by parents,circumstances genetics, at the end your ego becomes preoccupied with these things and they define it.

[Someone here]

Free will.. Two words.. 

Will  =assuming there is a seperate entity in the body called "you" that is "willing" or creating thoughts and actions etc.. Which is just not the case. 

That's it the question ends here.  There is no you who have will.. Let alone whether this will is "free" or not... 

But what the hell does "free" mean anyways lol?   Free from what?  From causality?   If everything has a cause and that cause has a cause then where is the freedom in this?   You might say causality is an illusion which is actually true because there is no duality of cause and effect..

reality is just ONE happening.. No freedom and no one to be free or not free..every single item in the present moment is entirely spontaneous creation out of "your" "control". You can notice this. 

[The0Self]

There may be free will, but there is certainly no one that has free will.

[SoonHei]

for your day to day living purposes, yes, you have absolute and total free will

own it and drive well

[Lyubov]

nothing has free will. emphasis on nothing. the ego appears to have the free will itself but it is only a lens of perception and a limiting array of possible choices. the nothingness is what has the freedom.   

[DreamScape]

It seems like when you awaken this question doesn't even make sense anymore 

For me at least. I cant even come up with an answer. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by DreamScape

[Vittorio]

Leo made an entire episode about that. 

I suggest you watching it.

[DreamScape]

@Vittorio he said in a previous post that it doesn't apply anymore bc he is at new stages of awakening.

[Vittorio]

It still applies in a certain way.

Well, then I will just offer my point of view of free will based on trips, contemplation and some awakenings I had. 

Is there any free will? 

It depends from which perspective you are seeing it. 

If you consider it from a human/egoic standpoint, the answer is no, there is no free will. 

You can tell me now: "Well, if I want to throw myself in a well, I can do it. If I want to do this over this, I can do it. It's my choice. I have free will!".

Well, this is not so easy at all.

here is some parvence of It still applies in a certain way. 

Well, then I will just offer my point of view of free will based on trips, contemplation and some awakenings I had.

This is a really complex topic and I still don't have a super big picture about it, but I can surely throw in my 2 cents

Is there any free will? 

It depends from which perspective you are seeing it. 

If you consider it from a human/egoic standpoint, the answer is no, there is no free will. 

You could tell me now: "Well, if I want to throw myself in a well, I can do it. If I want to become an engineer, instead of becoming a waiter, I can do it. If I want to read a book, instead of eating a sandwich, I can do it. It's my choice. Therefore I have free will!".

Well, no.

This is not so easy as it seems to be.

This only proves that there is an APPEARANCE of free will, but not that there is any free will at all.

Why can't you have free will?

Because you have an ego.

The ego and the world where you live have specific laws and are built in specific ways and you have to submit to these laws and to the way they are constructed.

You cannot fly, if you throw yourself from a bridge.

You will plummet into water and probably die.

Can you don't burn yourself, if you put your hand on a fire?

No you can't.

You will burn yourself EVEN IF you say: "I decide with my free will to don't burn myself".

Without considering that almost all your actions are influenced by specific psychological/egoic mechanisms such as good/bad mindsets, personal preferences, self biases, self deceptions or even past traumata.

So, if you are a human, you must live as a human (and with all limitations).

If you are a fork, then you'll live as a fork (and with all limitations).

If you are some stardust, you'll live as a stardust (and with all limitations).

If you consider the free will from a consciousness standpoint, then there is actually free will.

The entire "sandbox" (all universes with human/not human beings, objects, particles, physical and psychological laws etc.) was created by consciousness itself ON PURPOSE (therefore due to free will).

Everything has a role and exists, interacts and changes in the exact ways as they were planned.

With awakenings, higher consciousness (and ultimately with enlightenment) you can go gradually over this notion of free will and understand there is actually no free will from a human standpoint (and that there is no "you", so there is ultimately no free will. Who has/hasn't the free will?).

I could tell more about this, but the post would be too long. This should suffice to answer your question

Hope it helps!