Does being trans-age make more sense the trans-gender?

[Consept]

Keep in mind im only playing devils advocate here so just presenting something to think about.

Is there an argument for trans-age? ie legally changing your age if you look and feel younger. Trans-gender makes the claim that if you are born a man and feel like a woman from birth you should be accepted in society as one, I understand this argument as of course we all have different hormones and body make ups and its entirely plausible that someone could feel this way and this is backed up by a lot of scientific data with regards to gender dysphoria. 

I personally dont have a problem with accepting anyone as such, but if we switch it to age i dont think you are legally allowed to change your age and it definitely wouldnt be accepted by society. In theory there would be a better argument to be able to change your age, you could physically have the body of a younger or even older person. Its common enough that say a 50 year old has a body of the average 35 year old. Mentally someone could be younger as well, its possible to test brain age. Also someone could genuinely feel younger or older internally the same way a trans-gender might feel they are a different sex. 

What we might say is that gender feels more central to who someone is than age, which is fair enough. But in general we can make the argument that grouping people together by gender doesnt make sense anyway because everyone feels slightly different than each other. I think the joint experience comes from being treated as a male or female whilst growing up, in the same way black people have a shared experience of growing up in a society that perceives you a certain way, so if a white person then says they identify as black its hard to accept that as they didnt have a similar experience. So if you are trans-gender you would have had a very different experience than someone is the gender youre transitioning to, however your experience is valid in and of itself its just not the same as a cis-gendered person. 

Anyway hopefully i havent caused any offence with this post and if i have, apologies i just thought it was an interesting and slightly taboo subject. It was sparked when I came across these two videos below, one was of someone who wanted to legally change their age and was ridiculed and the other is of a cis-woman debating with a trans woman over whether she should be accepted by society as a woman, in this case the presenters were on the trans womans side. Relatively speaking theres no difference in the argument apart from how the debates were framed. 

 

[Dryas]

But gender is a social construct and age isn't ?

[Consept]

33 minutes ago, Dryas said:

But gender is a social construct and age isn't ?

Why not? Theres an expectation of what old people should be like or what young people should be like, that is also a social construction. Time is relative and experienced differently for everyone, so time itself is a concept. You could maybe make the argument that gender as a social construct is more prevalent but im not even sure thats definitely true.

[Dryas]

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

Why not? Theres an expectation of what old people should be like or what young people should be like, that is also a social construction. 

Well, then I guess the expectations should be challenged but it is still a fact that you're x years old. You can't just legally change your age because you feel like it.

[mandyjw]

Gender changes cause some problems for society to sort out, but age changes would be an even bigger problem. So many laws and benefits are based on age. I often felt like an old lady trapped in a girl's body when I was a kid because I had much different interests and values that weren't like other kids my age. However no one was going to give me the right to buy alcohol, vote and smoke at age 13 because I enjoyed staying at home and knitting and reading. Although... that could have made me pretty popular with my peers. 

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Dryas said:

Well, then I guess the expectations should be challenged but it is still a fact that you're x years old. You can't just legally change your age because you feel like it.

Right but some people might make the same argument with gender. If i im 60 but i feel 40 and this is backed up biologically through tests etc, what is the difference between that and someone whos male but feels female? Why should they be allowed legally to change their gender but the 60 year old cant change their age?

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Gender changes cause some problems for society to sort out, but age changes would be an even bigger problem. So many laws and benefits are based on age. I often felt like an old lady trapped in a girl's body when I was a kid because I had much different interests and values that weren't like other kids my age. However no one was going to give me the right to buy alcohol, vote and smoke at age 13 because I enjoyed staying at home and knitting and reading. Although... that could have made me pretty popular with my peers. 

Yeah there'd be quite a few popular 15 year olds lol. 

Youre right it would cause a lot more problems with law, maybe you could say you can only change your age over the age of 18 or something like that. But just because of the law issues does it make it less valid than trans-genderism? Also if you look at the reactions from the presenters in the media, one is laughed at and one is defended 

[Dryas]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

Right but some people might make the same argument with gender.

Yea, I realised that after posting. I don't know, this shit is too tricky. 

[Consept]

12 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

The man is trying to distort or deny a measurement, his age. Yes, the way you calculate how time tick by is a social construct. But one has to be careful with pointing our calendar as a social construct and then gaslighting people on telling them that because it is a construct, he has the right to measure differently within this construct. This makes no sense IMO.

Transgenders do not deny that they were born female or male in terms of the body. Their claim is that they are changing the gender role assigned to their birth sex. 

 

This is actually a follow-on from what we were discussing in the other thread regarding race. 

Wouldnt a trans-gender claim that they are actually the sex they changed to, as is shown in the second video i posted? You could also say that the trans-woman is gaslighting in the same way you mention. Not saying all trans-genders do this btw. Also the with age you could say a similar thing such as 'my birth certificate age is x but my actual age is y' but the main thing is that you would get the rights of someone a different age to you, it doesnt have to be a denial. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Consept

[Fran11]

I've alway felt my d*ck is five inches longer, where do I change it legally?

Metrics are a social construct after all... 

Please, this is a good example of Stage Green excesses. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fran11

[Consept]

1 minute ago, Fran11 said:

I've alway felt my d*ck is five inches longer, where do I change it legally?

Metrics are a social construct after all... 

Please, this is a good exapmle of Stage Green excesses.

Theres pills for that, allegedly 

Are you saying trans-gender is stage green excess? 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Consept

[Fran11]

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

Theres pills for that, allegedly 

 

But I want people to periceve it longer and tell it to me, while keeping it exactly as it is, like with age change.

3 minutes ago, Consept said:

Are you saying trans-gender is stage green excess? 

No, I have a post on that and I'm even more progressive than most.

Trans-age on the other hand seems ridiculous to me.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fran11

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

But I want people to periceve it longer and tell it to me, while keeping it exactly as it is, like with age change.

Well the difference with age change is that biologically you could be younger or older than your age, in fact its most likely usually the case. Unfortunately for you with your penis size that wouldnt be the case, i guess you could tell everyone that you feel like you have a big dick trapped in a small dick and youre transitioning and everyone should cognizant of that. 

 

7 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

No, I have a post on that and I'm even more progressive than most.

Trans-age on the other hand seems ridiculous to me.

What would be the difference between trans-age and trans-gender, aside from more people fighting for trans-gender? 

[Hello from Russia]

Wow, that man and his health is very inspiring, gotta check him out

[Fran11]

15 minutes ago, Consept said:

What would be the difference between trans-age and trans-gender, aside from more people fighting for trans-gender? 

Gender IS a complex social construct.

Age/weight/height HAVE complex social constructs attached to them. These constructs and steretypes do exist and require social evolution in order to be trascended (which is slowly happening). But it's nonsense allowing people to legally modify these raw variables just because they feel like. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fran11

[DrewNows]

What makes a social construct, or what enforces it? Is a birth certificate a social contract?

 I’ve met people who don’t wish to identity with their age due to the meanings and expectations associated with it. Just this year there’s an 82 yo woman who told me she’s 11. Last year I met a dude who identified as ageless, same thing really...it’s easy to come up with reasons why these are bad or absurd ideas, it’s also easy to see them as turning points in evolution as a species 

[Fran11]

13 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

What makes a social construct, or what enforces it? Is a birth certificate a social contract?

 I’ve met people who don’t wish to identity with their age due to the meanings and expectations associated with it. Just this year there’s an 82 yo woman who told me she’s 11. Last year I met a dude who identified as ageless, same thing really...it’s easy to come up with reasons why these are bad or absurd ideas, it’s also easy to see them as turning points in evolution as a species 

You can identify yourself the way you want, the point is if you should be able to legally force the rest of society to conform with your perceptions.

An advanced spiritual practicioner also feels ageless, and doesn't need society to validate this.

This, on the other hand, seems to me just pathologic denial of bodily age, and wanting society to validate this for you. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fran11

[DrewNows]

24 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

You can identify yourself the way you want, the point is if you should be able to legally force the rest of society to conform with your perceptions.

I guess the difference is the requirements 

24 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

An advanced spiritual practicioner also feels ageless, and doesn't need society to validate this.

This, on the other hand, seems to me just pathologic denial of bodily age, and wanting society to validate this for you. 

the limitations are knowledge, science, or information 

[Hatfort]

There was another debate about the race too, now the age, comparing to the transgender community. If you people want to go deeply philosophical, whatever, everything you say is a social construct, language is a social construct itself, it wasn't given by nature. But in practice, that's how we understand each other. Gender, skin color, or age are different concepts and we don't need to measure or treat them the same way. Just for swapping one concept into the context of another, that won't change it and all it's characteristics magically.

Age is not gender, gender biology and identity have very particular characteristics that we can't really apply to age, which has it's own and that's fine. I don't think it's fair to compare people who deal with gender identity issues, with this non-issue. You feel younger, good for you, go and enjoy your life, while you can.

[Carl-Richard]

On 12.9.2020 at 1:06 PM, Dryas said:

But gender is a social construct and age isn't ?

There is a socially constructed dynamic around age just like gender. You can say "oh, age is just a physical/biological fact", but then you're ignoring the social repercussions of being a certain age. That is what transage or transgender is really about: changing the social dynamic in order to be treated a certain way. You may say "oh, if you look young, then people will treat you as such", but that is a bit too idealistic and simplistic.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Fran11]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is a socially constructed dynamic around age just like gender. You can say "oh, age is just a physical/biological fact", but then you're ignoring the social repercussions of being a certain age. 

That's why I think we should work on deconstructing these social sterotypes instead. By education, for example.

Age/height/weight do have important uses and implications taken as biological facts. We would lose that if we allow people to just change them instead of attacking the real root problem.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fran11