What are people doing?

[Dazgwny]

I’m so confused? thank you guys for trying to explain and give your opinions. I’m liking what @RedLine is saying I feel more inclined to understand a little what they’re saying. Seems about as confused as I’ve found myself?. Think it must be time for another psychedelic trip. I’m so intent on understanding this lot, that I think maybe my desire to understand may just be the problem. Because maybe it’s something you. can never really understand. I’m sick to death of thinking I’ve got it, then 3 weeks later questioning myself about whether I have or not. And like I say, if I’m questioning, I clearly havnt ??‍♂️

[Dazgwny]

One question. Is my mate at home doing something now? It’s that straightforward it’s that simple the question. I’m thinking not. @RedLine U sound like u speake sense. What do u think?

[RedLine]

2 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

I’m so confused? thank you guys for trying to explain and give your opinions. I’m liking what @RedLine is saying I feel more inclined to understand a little what they’re saying. Seems about as confused as I’ve found myself?. Think it must be time for another psychedelic trip. I’m so intent on understanding this lot, that I think maybe my desire to understand may just be the problem. Because maybe it’s something you. can never really understand. I’m sick to death of thinking I’ve got it, then 3 weeks later questioning myself about whether I have or not. And like I say, if I’m questioning, I clearly havnt ??‍♂️

What we are discussing here is not usefulness for consciusness work; it is just an intelectual debate.

Focus on experience. Just see the others as a thought in your mind, and the question about the others as a question in your mind. Just focus on the form, not the content of what arise in your consciusness. You have to observe, not think. Thinking i s desire of change.

 

 

 

 

[Dazgwny]

@RedLine ??

[justfortoday]

8 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

One question. Is my mate at home doing something now? It’s that straightforward it’s that simple the question. I’m thinking not. @RedLine U sound like u speake sense. What do u think?

The answer is yes. Your mate is having an experience as real as yours.

[seeking_brilliance]

@Dazgwny it's OK not to know.  Tell us what your current belief on the situation is-- like man 'splain it to me.

Would knowing the answer do something cool like unlock a magic chest?  Place you in some exclusive club? What would it mean to you to find this answer? 

Do you need to know all sides of the production to enjoy the show? 

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The point is go beyond the concept, forget the need of understanding , the mind can't understand

This.

[Gesundheit]

6 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

I’m contemplating something. As in what are other people up to? As in when they’re in my company, they are there visually to me, I can see them, I can speak to them, whatever ya know. But say for instance when they go home, they’re out of my sight out of my experience. Are they actually at home doing something? Or do they just disappear? And then the next time I see them and they tell me they’ve been up to this and that, or whatever, have they sort of been non existent type thing but then when they reappear into my experience I’ve somehow made up a story, that I’m not aware of doing m, that they have been upto these things, and it’s just like me, tricking myself bullshitting myself. Does anyone really have the answer to this or are yous just going to speculate like I am now? Would appreciate speculation anyway but if someone has hands down honest truth they know is truth that would be even more appreciated ?

Notice the actual story you're telling yourself here. It's whether people are real or not. That's also a story, don't let it slip away from awareness.

And also ask yourself how do you determine what's real and what's not? Where's the line between the two? Does it require perception to be certain? Why, or why not?

[allislove]

@RedLine https://non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/is_consciousness_limited

Quote

In other words, just as the intermittence of objects in time does not imply the discontinuity of Consciousness, the same conclusion applies to the limitations of objects in space.

This is not a proof that all objects in space appear in the same Consciousness but it shows that what we normally consider to be evidence of more than one Consciousness is in fact no evidence at all. It is simply a belief.

 

[LarryW]

17 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

One question. Is my mate at home doing something now? It’s that straightforward it’s that simple the question. I’m thinking not. @RedLine U sound like u speake sense. What do u think?

Never mind just your mate, what about the rest of the universe which you aren't aware of? Right now the sun has set where I live, does it still exist, and do I create it each morning when I see it again?  When I go to sleep at night, does the whole of reality switch off, only for me to create it again anew in the morning when I wake up?  Perhaps we can flip this round, and ask whether I exist if I'm not aware of anything else to relate to, ie am I a creation of relativity? 

[Farnaby]

@LarryW the sun is still there while you sleep.

We could say that for you subjectively it doesn't exist. But it exists nonetheless whether you're in a state of consciousness that's able to perceive it or not.

[LarryW]

@Farnaby   yes I know, luckily the Sun still exists, this was my little attempt at being Socratic   It just seemed to me that @Dazgwny 's original question relies on a duality of subject and object: him and his friend. Or me and the Sun. It doesn't really matter what it is; that is what I'm calling relativity. By this logic, if there's no objects out there (because they aren't in my immediate awareness), then there's no subject either, and what is that? Emptiness, infinity, absolute, a collapse of the duality into unity.  And then we re-create (re-incarnate) the duality in our minds when we start the cycle again.

 But the issue remains, if there is just a simple unity, why is my knowledge still limited, an awakened mind still can't see the sun when it's over the horizon, still doesn't know what their friends are doing when they're away. We don't have that type of omniscience, is what I interpret this thread to be about. I dunno (not being enlightened LOL)  perhaps that's why people create stories of siddhis, paranormal phenomena etc. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by LarryW

[Yarco]

If your friend doesn't exist when they're not in your direct experience.... then what happens when you send someone a text message?

Does your friend blink into reality for a split second to receive and respond to your message and then goes back to non-existence? Or is there no one on the other end and really you're just texting yourself?

[Dazgwny]

@Yarco well this is it mate. What on earth is going on with a text message. I’ve just received one now. Someone quizzing me about something. So what’s going on here. Is there someone somewhere typing that or is it just words, letters appearing on my phone screen and I’m going to create a story about it. But then it seems I’ve no control at all of the story that’s going to develop because I’ve been asked a question. Which I really can not be fucked answering?. So what is happening? Is there really someone there or can I just ignore this text message question because in reality it’s an absolute load of bollocks?. ??‍♂️ 

[justfortoday]

1 hour ago, Dazgwny said:

@Yarco well this is it mate. What on earth is going on with a text message. I’ve just received one now. Someone quizzing me about something. So what’s going on here. Is there someone somewhere typing that or is it just words, letters appearing on my phone screen and I’m going to create a story about it. But then it seems I’ve no control at all of the story that’s going to develop because I’ve been asked a question. Which I really can not be fucked answering?. So what is happening? Is there really someone there or can I just ignore this text message question because in reality it’s an absolute load of bollocks?. ??‍♂️ 

@Dazgwny See the graphic below.

When you receive a text message, you sent it to yourself through the mask of another human being / another ego.

That ego is not experiencing the world through the senses, they are an illusion.

However, that ego has an inner monologue, just like you do. That is what ego means.

Suppose your mate and you are "looking" at the color red on a wall.

You and your mate are not actually perceiving the color red. The color red is BEING and you are in its presence.

In other words, you aren't perceiving one instance of the color red, and your mate another.

You are both the same consciousness from two POVs and the reason you are able to "perceive" the color red is because you are infinite consciousness itself.

Consciousness is like a hot soup always moving and morphing. 

ONE instance of everything.

No objective physical world, only perceptions, happening to nothing / consciousness / you.

 

[Vittorio]

1 hour ago, justfortoday said:

@Dazgwny See the graphic below.

When you receive a text message, you sent it to yourself through the mask of another human being / another ego.

That ego is not experiencing the world through the senses, they are an illusion.

However, that ego has an inner monologue, just like you do. That is what ego means.

Suppose your mate and you are "looking" at the color red on a wall.

You and your mate are not actually perceiving the color red. The color red is BEING and you are in its presence.

In other words, you aren't perceiving one instance of the color red, and your mate another.

You are both the same consciousness from two POVs and the reason you are able to "perceive" the color red is because you are infinite consciousness itself.

Consciousness is like a hot soup always moving and morphing. 

ONE instance of everything.

No objective physical world, only perceptions, happening to nothing / consciousness / you.

 

I'll quote his message to give my 2 cents.

This is a really good reply and basis to start building up from.

This topic is not an easy one and I still don't have enough first hand experience besides some awakenings, god/oneness/all is a dream realizations and some contemplation I did, so I'll try to do my best.

The "standard" way of describing solipsism is to say that all there is out there is you and that everything other is imaginated.

People get confused by this phrase because they don't understand what is meant by "you".

By saying "you" it's NOT meant:

1) a person

2) an identity

3) an ego

but "you" as one single being (nondual being), so for everything there is, consciousness.

And that's actually true.

After having some awakenings and going deep into the spiritual studies you will discover that all there is out there is is both nothing (the emptyness) and something (consciousness).

Simultaneously.

This is then what is really meant by solipsism: the essence of oneness.

"You", as such as your friends, your parents, animals and all people out there are simply imaginated.

You don't materially exist.

You perceive that you exist, but you cannot prove that you physically REALLY exist, because you cannot prove that your perceptions are true (saying: I perceive therefore I exist is an assumption and a dogma and proves absolutely nothing, because it's not based on any kind of proof)

So "you" as a specific being (you, the one who is thinking he is reading my post) are not experiencing anything at all.

Because you as the concept/believe you think to be don't actually exist!

This is just a believe that's deepely rooted into you

There is rather just one thing that experiences itself through active creation (molecules, atoms, energy, physical laws, energies, universes, frequencies, animals, humans, identities etc.) and that "look through" the lens of your ego (or of a something other living/not living being) to experience itself in many different forms and ways.

What I still don't understand is what happen when you die.

Leo says that everything (the entire universe) disappears and that noone will keep living here, proving then that there isn't any objective singular reality, but rather that's everything subjective.

What I don't understand is: how can it be true, if there are/were many cases of reincarnation or people reborn in other bodies and have some remembering about their past lives (eg I saw long time ago that documentary of this child who discovered his old child body that was murdered, digged and never ever found)?

If the previous reality just disappears, then you cannot go back to it.

So this is a higly paradoxical and not so intuitive topic to understand

Edited September 13, 2020 by Vittorio

[Vittorio]

P.S. Leo seems to explain the "real" solipsism in his video at this minute (just click on the video) and he basically
says what I told you

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Vittorio

[daemons]

On 9/12/2020 at 10:22 AM, justfortoday said:

You aren’t everything.

Everything is you.

You got your metaphysics flipped.

 

On 9/12/2020 at 10:30 AM, RedLine said:

A=B

B=A

It is the same my friend..

 

I'm no expert on this, but I don't see the 2 statements as being equal. "You are everything" is different to "everything is you". One is egotistical, and the other is the opposite of egotistical. If you are everything, the importance is on you. If everything is you, the importance is on everything.

[Vittorio]

On 12.9.2020 at 2:30 AM, RedLine said:

A=B

B=A

It is the same my friend..

 

Not in this case.

 

[LastThursday]

@Dazgwny what you're talking is Existence and Continuity. 

For something to exist it has to be continuous in time and space. A good example is continuity in a film. Say there is a dialogue scene, from one angle the character is wearing a red shirt and suddenly from a different angle they're wearing a yellow shirt. That's jarring, and we know they've messed up the continuity.

What you've realised is that Appearances are discontinuous. So when the appearance of say a friend disappears from your immediate direct experience, and reappears a few days later wearing a different shirt, you don't assume there has been a continuity error. Instead you infer that they must have existed somewhere in time and space and they changed their shirt. It's a story.

It's the same when your friend is standing in front of you. Say they suddenly turned around, their back towards you. It's a completely different appearance. But you don't assume that your friend has suddenly disappeared. No. Instead you infer that they are existing continuously, and so it is still your friend standing in front of you.

See how it works?

Appearances are constantly coming and going. We just cast a mental net of "Existence" over it, to give the illusion of continuity.