The Truth About Conscious Politics Leo Refuses To See

[SunCat]

I stumbled upon this gem just now:

Looks like Leo likes to create echo chambers here and he even ends up kicking people out who are more politically conscious than him.

The conspiracy theory the video refers to is Russiagate. The obsession and misuse of spiral dynamics is also discussed. But the person goes about the criticisms in a very calm way. 

 

[Forestluv]

He is creating all sorts of binary constructs and unable to see degrees and partial truths within in inter-connected systems.

For example: The claim "Trump is the most corrupted president" is a degree along a spectrum. The youtuber makes the argument that Trump is not the only corrupted president - that is a binary construct. That is a completely different argument. . . One can say that Trump is the most corrupted president AND that every other president was corrupt as well. Of course Obama, Clinton, Reagan etc had elements of corruption!! One could say that Trump is a 8/10 on a corruption scale and other presidents ranged from 5-7 on the corruption scale. 

Second example: He speaks of "RussiaGate" in an either / or binary choice: That Russian interference must be 100% BS or 100% true. This is overly simplistic. There is evidence that Russia meddled in the election AND evidence that democrats played up the story for political advantages. 

As well, Russia interference does not mean it is the ONLY reason Trump won, it can be one of many factors that contributed to Trump's victory. The youtuber says that Trump is a manifestation of underlying dissent and problems in America. . . .  both can be contributing factors. There are many dots inter-connected with a system.

[TrustTheProcess]

@SunCat I do think that leo can at times come across as arrogant.

That said, at least from what I have seen, he rarely has very hot takes from my perspective. This dude is wild for saying Jimmy Dore is more politically conscious than Leo. Leo said that Trump is the most corrupt president in us history. He also has said that other presidents such as Obama and Bush were also corrupt-- thing is they were not equally as corrupt. Also, recent evidence has made it clear that there was some level of Russia involvement. While Pelosi and co played it up way more than they should have... it happened. Leo doesn't just point out Trump as the only problem, he understands that the system selected Trump. Trump is the byproduct of late stage neoliberalism and a lack of proper education. 

Also, you can't say that democrats and republicans are the same. Yes, both serve corporate interests. That said, who is more aggressively trying to decrease taxes, cut social security, increase fracking, decrease regulations on corporations, cut education, cut infrastructure, nullify lgbt rights, create an american exceptionalism narrative, actively scapegoat the other side of the aisle as the root of all problems, discredit academia, bloat military?

There are levels to this shit. degrees of corruption. It is very fair to say Trump is the most corrupt president in us history in terms of repeatedly violating the emoluments clause(signing arms deals with saudi arabia on their terms after taking bribes through his hotels for example), flamboyant nepotism, and stuffing his cabinet with lobbyists while simultaneously trying to create an image for himself that he is "anti-establishment". 

[Thewritersunion]

He does have a huge Shadow. This is true. 

[Consept]

Didn't watch the whole thing but ultimately what his point was is true, always watch things consciously, never turn what someone says into dogma or take it on wholesale, and have multiple sources of info. It seems everyone's so easily led these days or probably its always been the case but it's easier to get to people now. As far as I see Leo does always say have your own sources but it's hard for people to really take that on board. 

The problem I find generally on the forum or even in discussion in normal life, is that people believe point of views like a religion in which case a debate is literally impossible, that has often been the case on here. If you have a perspective that you could be wrong and don't mind being proven wrong, then discussion can flow, if not its really a brick wall. 

[SunCat]

@Forestluv @Thewritersunion Theres no evidence to back up that Russia meddled in the elections. There are levels to corruption, neither Franco nor I are saying there isnt a spectrum, but you have to compare side by side everything the presidents did in order to conclude who was more corrupt and whether that difference is significant to the degree that Leo hypes it up to be because Cenk and Sam Sedar confirm his bias.

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, SunCat said:

Theres no evidence to back up that Russia meddled in the elections. 

[Leo Gura]

@SunCat Enough of your foolish Trumpist gaslighting.

[diamondpenguin]

10 hours ago, SunCat said:

I stumbled upon this gem just now:

Looks like Leo likes to create echo chambers here and he even ends up kicking people out who are more politically conscious than him.

The conspiracy theory the video refers to is Russiagate. The obsession and misuse of spiral dynamics is also discussed. But the person goes about the criticisms in a very calm way. 

 

@SunCatYou obviously haven't been on the forum. Leo gura despises conspiracy theories and we have enough shit to be worried about to worry about this shit. Stop stirring up trouble and stop adding fuel to the fire for gods sake. This guy didnt accomplish a single thing he just pissed people off. I reported his ass. 

[SunCat]

@diamondpenguin Reported it for what lol? Leo promotes the Russiagate conspiracy theory which is dangerous because it distracts from real issues affecting us. Russiagate has been heavily debunked by journalists like Matt Taibi, Aaron Mate, and Glenn Greenwald.

[SunCat]

@Leo Gura Fuck Donald Trump

[TrustTheProcess]

@SunCat

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/russiagate-wasnt-a-hoax/615373/

[SunCat]

@louhadhttps://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html

[SunCat]

@louhad I did. The Atlantic has a lot of pro-imperialist liberal hacks. Did you read mine? Aaron Mate is a much more meticulous journalist who won an award for his Russiagate debunking.

[SunCat]

"Then there is the fact that so little of this supposed election interference campaign content actually concerned the election. Mueller himself cites a review by Twitter of tweets from "accounts associated with the IRA" in the 10 weeks before the 2016 election, which found that "approximately 8.4%... were election-related." This tracks with a report commissioned by the U.S. Senate that found that “explicitly political content was a small percentage” of the content attributed to the IRA. The IRA’s posts "were minimally about the candidates," with “roughly 6% of tweets, 18% of Instagram posts, and 7% of Facebook posts" having "mentioned Trump or Clinton by name." "

Come on now, memes are a significant source of election interference? 

If you actually read the article I sent you'll understand why articles like The Atlantic's are a laughing stock. Grasping at straws.

Edited September 12, 2020 by SunCat

[Consept]

@SunCat So you're here to argue about RussiaGate? 

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, SunCat said:

@Forestluv @Thewritersunion Theres no evidence to back up that Russia meddled in the elections. There are levels to corruption, neither Franco nor I are saying there isnt a spectrum, but you have to compare side by side everything the presidents did in order to conclude who was more corrupt and whether that difference is significant to the degree that Leo hypes it up to be because Cenk and Sam Sedar confirm his bias.

LOL they have a an office set up in saint petersburg where people go in and make fake social media accounts all day. It isn't even a secret in the city. Everyone knows where the building is and you can go up and talk to the workers going in and out and ask them what they are doing. 

[Space]

@SunCat Dude, just let it go. There's so many more things you could be spending your time doing, rather than trying to convince a bunch of people on a forum that your beliefs are true. This isn't the place for that. 

[SunCat]

@Lyubov Ok... and? Hillary Clinton paid $1 million for correct the record so that fake accounts could "correct the record" against people who were voting for Bernie. Do you have any evidence to show that memes and fake accounts influence elections?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hillary-pac-spends-dollar-1-million-to-correct-commenters-on-reddit-and-facebook

Edited September 12, 2020 by SunCat

[SunCat]

@Space What part of what I said is a belief?