Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) The title of this thread is a misnomer, there is no truth in “conscious” politics how about “entitled” politics? Story wars baby! Leo’s narratives just so happens to be superior on this forum. For many, this may be an advantage, but for a few it’s a mild attack to say the least. debates will never outweigh under-inner-over standing views/perspectives (connection). When it is assumed discussion requires a right or wrong, a divide is created and the game is on! Leo does what the government must, protect the valued narrations “for the good of the people” ? at least it’s distracting fun, beats the crazy rabbit holes in self disposition Edited September 12, 2020 by DrewNows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) @SunCat The article you sent was from last year.... further investigations happened and new info was found out... it isn't just atlantic: DIrect source: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.vox.com/2020/8/18/21373634/senate-intelligence-committee-russia-trump-report https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/senate-committee-concludes-russia-used-manafort-wikileaks-to-boost-trump-in-2016-idUSKCN25E1US you can find hundreds of more sources... think what you want tho bud Edited September 12, 2020 by louhad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, DrewNows said: The title of this thread is a misnomer, there is no truth in “conscious” politics how about “entitled” politics? Story wars baby! Leo’s narratives just so happens to be superior on this forum. For many, this may be an advantage, but for a few it’s a mild attack to say the least. debates will never outweigh under-inner-over standing views/perspectives (connection). When it is assumed discussion requires a right or wrong, a divide is created and the game is on! Leo does what the government must, protect the valued narrations “for the good of the people” ? at least it’s distracting fun, beats the crazy rabbit holes in self disposition So what youre saying is Leo creates a party line that he either believes or thinks everyone will be happy with and then everyone agrees and follows? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Consept said: So what youre saying is Leo creates a party line that he either believes or thinks everyone will be happy with and then everyone agrees and follows? I won't pretend to know leo's agenda, but i do notice the restrictions, his stubbornness/unwillingness to entertain certain ideas, and thechoice to write off or disregard certain information despite uncanny returning manifestations on the forum. Can this inhibit growth in awareness and information/energy exchange? I think so...but then again i don't know leo's agenda, maybe it's based in fear. I could argue skepticism is based in fear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 8 hours ago, louhad said: @SunCat so, if you actually read the article I sent... you would see that the bipartisan Senate Select Committee on Intelligence found that there was russian involvement in the election... you can verify this with other sources if you think the atlantic isn't satisfying enough... the mueller report was not as comprehensive the findings of this committee. You mean they found out that there were people from Russians posting,putting videos about candidates, just as there were from other countries, we could just as well say that EU is interfering in USA elections as they are constantly trying to make Trump look bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 @purerogue not worth my time to debate. If you are inclined to actually read some of the articles I have posted and processed them, please do so... otherwise, it is cool with me. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, louhad said: @purerogue not worth my time to debate. If you are inclined to actually read some of the articles I have posted and processed them, please do so... otherwise, it is cool with me. Peace. This article is nothing new, it was said already long time ago, in your opinion it is alright to put secretly recorded audios,emails, twist and put information as they want about Trump, but when it comes to showing dirt about Democrat party it now interference with election, ohh god. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 1 minute ago, louhad said: nice strawman/red herring buddy. For someone so conscious and superior it should be no problems to put together proper arguments, but what I get here is constant childish behaviours, it is k if you disagree, but can you at least try to make proper argument of why, what you are doing now is just sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 @datamonster You recently posted a video about how FoxNews and right-wing conservatives are leading to fascism in America. Do you think that view is of higher consciousness than that of the consciousness he criticizes? That is, a consciousness that blindly follows FoxNews and spreads fascist ideology. Why would you post a video that educates people about how fascist ideology infects the mind, rather than posting a video using fear and hatred to spread fascism? Is this not biased? Are you open-minded that fascism is best and that we should be promoting a fascist agenda rather than educating people about the dangers of fascism? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 1 hour ago, datamonster said: @SunCat He's right that Leo doesn't seem to apply his own teachings to his views on politics. In this regard he's quite closed minded and doesn't allow much room for discussion. He often justifies this on the forum by saying that the criticisms are too low quality. I guess that's what you must tell yourself when you're closed-minded... Leo is a great teacher to me for self-actualization and spirituality. But when it comes to politics I find it hard to get much value from listening to him because he's just too biased and prejudiced. Politics is always going to be somewhat biased because its asking you to polarise yourself between parties. I think whats better to look at is the intention behind whatever the argument is, for example its clear to see progressives ultimately want equality for people and less power for the rich, conservatives broadly want to keep the status quo and 'traditional' values or even revert to older values, dems are kind of in between but are also concerned about the economy. Within these each individual might have different incentives. Of course all assessments can be biased but if we want to look at things consciously we have to try and be as honest and unbiased as possible and try and give a meta view. What i notice on the forum is that if you say Trump is red and that hes more about power and even show examples, some will not be happy because theyre tied to the opinion that Trump is a saviour and dems are evil. As far as i can see Leo and most others are not going to support a party like the dems blindly, its whether they have policies that are progressive and for the people, thats the key thing, the party is almost irrelevant. For example Mccain before he died started supporting a couple of liberal causes if i remember correctly and he wouldve got support for those that are progressive, they wouldnt automatically condem him because hes rep. So i think at least on this forum it would be good to get away from partisan politics arguments and actually talk policies, any criticism is fair game as long as its legitimately backed up. If you do feel that youre tied to a particular party you are most likely the cause of the argument. If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) @louhad And none of the sources you provide show any evidence of election interference having a significant impact. You also keep using pro-imperialist sources. Vox is a joke. Also, you still trust US intelligence especially after the innumerable times they lied us into war and coups in other countries? Edited September 12, 2020 by SunCat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) I think many of us here can agree that Leo has an obsession with spiral dynamics and misrepresents it as if it defines one's overall level of consciousness. Spiral Dynamics focuses on values, which is only one aspect of consciousness. Maslow's Hierarchy of needs is another aspect. Franco made a point in the video that Leo doesnt want to use a more integrative approach to measuring consciousness like Ken Wilber's model. Edited September 12, 2020 by SunCat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 @SunCat Some lenses are more functional for viewing reality than others. It is up to you to figure out which ones. It is up to you to cherry pick the teachings of Leo that fit you the best. Of course, critique is good for refinement. On the point of Wilber's model: Just because he hasn't covered it doesn't mean that he doesn't want to try on this lense. It's like stating that a business guy doesn't want to use a model just because he hasn't used it publically or addressed it in his business videos. Option 1: He had other topics to cover first. Option 2: He had no knowledge of it. Option 3: He did not cover it as he doesn't like the model and has a personal bias. My projection: Be wary. Criticising does not equate that the work is done or that it is the work itself. Now, I project my projection to myself... Life Purpose journey Presence. Goodness. Grace. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 On 11/09/2020 at 6:46 PM, SunCat said: I stumbled upon this gem just now: Looks like Leo likes to create echo chambers here and he even ends up kicking people out who are more politically conscious than him. The conspiracy theory the video refers to is Russiagate. The obsession and misuse of spiral dynamics is also discussed. But the person goes about the criticisms in a very calm way. Are you that guy in the video or his fiancé? lol “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) @Gesundheit Neither Edited September 12, 2020 by SunCat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, datamonster said: At the same time, he reacts to other people's opinions and political perspectives with ridicule and bans them. How is this not hypocritical? No regulation is good? I feel that he would let other perspectives be explored as long as their are not ideological (non-ideological-ideology included). 15 minutes ago, datamonster said: their perspectives aren't valid. Their perspectives are less valid. There is still wisdom to be found. Focus more on what a perspective has to offer than to dismiss it because it is less valid. Yeah, to be functional you have to dismiss perspectives to make good use of your time. 23 minutes ago, datamonster said: I have to buy into an ideology. Not at all. See for yourself what is going on and express your opinions & interpretations. @Gesundheit Mockery is fun, don't you think? Life Purpose journey Presence. Goodness. Grace. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 @datamonster I would draw a distinction between considering various perspectives from a meta view vs. being immersed within an ideology and promoting that agenda. For example, the recent video you posted was a meta view looking at a spectrum of ideology from patriotism to nationalism to fascism. And, how a mind can become conditioned to progress from one extreme to another. The Youtuber considered fascist views and spoke of them. That is very different than a YouTuber promoting fascist ideology and trying to recruit people into fascism. The YouTuber you linked spoke of this distinction at the start of the video. It’s not the ideology itself. It’s more about the mind’s relationship to the ideology. How tightly is the mind attached and identified to the ideology and trying to push that agenda? What harmful impact could that have on a community? A forum without rules will devolve. An ‘anything goes’ forum will succumb to entropy and devolve into 4-Chan. Maintaining a nice garden takes moderation and work. A gardener needs to pull out weeds. Yet of course the weeds will say “I’m not a weed, I’m a flower!!”. And this is relative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Forestluv said: @datamonster Yet of course the weeds will say “I’m not a weed, I’m a flower!!”. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: You left out the second half. That will recontextualize the meaning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2020 @datamonster I think you have to consider how hard it is to keep a forum on track, especially when politics is introduced. Lets say all the Trump supporters were allowed to post whatever they want on here, no one got banned etc. Most posts will go on forever arguing about Trump, its rare that pro-trump posts have a meta analysis, if there are any feel free to share. So if one is stuck to an ideological position that Trump can do no wrong, as was evidenced in the Trump knew about covid thread, then is it not just a waste of time to argue back and forth on it? There has to be some regulation, i think it would be a similar case if someone went on about Biden all the time. To give an example would it be a good idea to let christian fundamentalists come on here and argue whether christianity is the one true religion? Then when you provide arguments against that they quote the bible? At certain point we have to say this is a limited discussion. I do hear you on maybe Leo guiding people, but again if someone is stuck to ideological position its very hard to guide them, as for them to even listen to you, you would have to agree with them. Ive spent many threads and words talking to people with ideological positions here on this forum and 100% of the time it has gone nowhere, so theres not much you can do about that imo If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
