The Fourth Way

[Zigzag Idiot]

This thread is being created for those interested in learning more about and/or discussing The Fourth Way. 

Below is a short bit from a Wikipedia description followed by 2 bookmarked links in High Consciousness Resources which are 100% relevant to the subject. I'll add more commentary, links, and articles periodically and try not to leave any redundancies from those threads except for the following introduction video to The a Fourth Way. I recommend this guy's channel but most of his videos are found on the Gurdjieff Thread, which are very concise and usually only 2-3 minutes long. 

 

 

In the Fourth Way, having a big personality is usually seen as only being a detriment to the discovery of one's True Nature which is ,,,, (pause for dramatic effect) -Being. Which produces or is synonymous with presence.

 

The Fourth Way[1] is an approach to self-development developed by George Gurdjieff over years of travel in the East (c. 1890 – 1912). It combines and harmonizes what he saw as three established traditional "ways" or "schools": those of the emotions, the body, and the mind, or of monks, fakirs, and yogis, respectively. Students often refer to the Fourth Way as "The Work", "Work on oneself", or "The System". The exact origins of some of Gurdjieff's teachings are unknown, but various sources have been suggested.[2]

The term "Fourth Way" was further used by his student P. D. Ouspensky in his lectures and writings. After Ouspensky's death, his students published a book entitled The Fourth Way based on his lectures.

According to this system, the three traditional schools, or ways, "are permanent forms which have survived throughout history mostly unchanged, and are based on religion. Where schools of yogis, monks or fakirs exist, they are barely distinguishable from religious schools. The fourth way differs in that "it is not a permanent way. It has no specific forms or institutions and comes and goes controlled by some particular laws of its own."[3]

The Fourth Way addresses the question of humanity's place in the Universe and the possibilities of inner development. It emphasizes that people ordinarily live in a state referred to as a semi-hypnotic "waking sleep," while higher levels of consciousness, virtue, unity of will are possible.

The Fourth Way teaches how to increase and focus attention and energy in various ways, and to minimize day-dreaming and absent-mindedness. This inner development in oneself is the beginning of a possible further process of change, whose aim is to transform man into "what he ought to be."

Taken from: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Way

 

 

[Thewritersunion]

You should probably bring this to the journals

[Gesundheit]

Where to?

[Zigzag Idiot]

13 minutes ago, Thewritersunion said:

You should probably bring this to the journals

I'm fine with moving it if the Moderators choose to.  A fellow Actualizer, @seeking_brilliance, recommended here or the Actualization thread.

[seeking_brilliance]

This sounds really interesting. I'll have to check out the videos soon.  I like that it has a very non religious self improvement vibe to it.

  And I think this is not a book study or journal type article, but more about introducing a school of being which many may have not heard about.  Maybe the Actualization thread if anything else... But of course I'm not a moderator so that's just my opinion

[seeking_brilliance]

23 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Where to?

Lol 'the fourth way to nowhere particular' would probably not sell as many copies ?

[Thewritersunion]

@Zigzag Idiot alright

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot here's what the philosopher AI said about the Fourth Way... No idea if it relates to what you're presenting, but a strange and interesting answer regardless

Philosopher AI

Second try, this one says it's the path to ultimate truth in philosophy

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

@seeking_brilliance I'm trying to reconcile the second reply with with the standard answer of what comprises the four different paths.

The second A.I. Answer-

The Fourth Way is a path to the ultimate truth in philosophy. The First Way focuses on identifying and analyzing the premises of various arguments, evaluating their validity or invalidity. The Second Way concerns the principles underlying all that exists, including logic itself. The Third Way looks at what should be rather than what is.

The three traditional ways of

• the Fakir - focus on the body 
• the Monk - devotion; focus on the emotions 
• the Yogi- thee way of the mind/intellect

The Fourth Way works simultaneously on the three centers -

• Hara; belly center/instinctive center
• 4th and 5th chakras/lower and higher emotional center
• 6th and 7th chakra Intellectual center and higher intellectual center.

The work of the Fourth Way is carried out in the living of everyday life working on the three centers simultaneously, using life and life situations as one's Teacher with the Law of attraction setting the ciriculum-One's being attracts one's life which some see as Karma playing out.

Note: My inclusion of the chakras should be taken with a heavy dose of salt. In the Fourth Way though it is commonly taught that there is a higher emotional center and a higher intellectual center that they are already completed  but until the emotional center is purified, we remain disconnected from them.

Having a hard time matching them,,, I may push the button on the AI again in another week or two and see what it says then. 

Thanks for sharing,,,

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot OK I've started watching the videos in the gurdjieff thread... Might be slow process so bear with me

[seeking_brilliance]

This is neat so far, I'm noticing a big emphasis on self inquiry or 'self-remembering'

[Zigzag Idiot]

'Self Remembering' in the Fourth Way is kind of like how 'Love' is spoken of in ACIM in that, it is so all encompassing that a particular definition cannot really be given. It can be spoken of as a practice and also as a state of Consciousness and yet more. It's spoken of as a practice in conjunction with self observation which is the term more often used than self Inquiry. Yet, these two taken together might also be described by some as Self Inquiry from a Fourth Way perspective.

Below is from Ian C. MacFarlane's -  https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/

It begins with a quote from Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson and also ends with one, mixed with Gurdjieff's quirky sense of humor.

 

"In the temples for men, namely in the 'agoorokhrostinis,' beings of the male sex of the given region or district performed in turn appropriate 'mysteries' while in a particular state called 'self-remembering.' (40)

Self Remembering

All-Brains-Balanced-Being-Perception

In Gurdjieff's own words, Self Remembering could be described thus - "There are moments when you become aware not only of what you are doing but also of yourself doing it. You see both ‘I’ and the ‘here’ of ‘I am here’- both the anger and the ‘I’ that is angry. Call this self-remembering if you like." (Views From the Real World)

Here is another description of Self Remembering from Mme Ouspensky - "What is the first characteristic of self-remembering? In this state is not center. He is not separate. Sitting in a room, he is aware of the whole room, of himself as only one of the objects in it. He is likewise aware of others and does not put himself above them or criticize or judge. This is not love, but it is the beginning of love. In this state a man has no self as he is usually aware of it. It is quite impossible for him to consider or become negative, for the moment he does so the state will vanish." (Robert de Ropp; Conversations with Mme Ouspensky: 1939-40 at Lyme; Farwest Press, 1974)

Here is a quote from Beelzebub's Tales - "And just as nothing could be accomplished by the beings of their planet of former epochs, who, becoming responsible beings had even attained in respect of Being at least to what is called ‘self-remembering,’ then all the more, nothing effective can be done, devised, or actualized by beings with that Reason which the beings of this contemporary society possess and who in respect of Being are only perfected to the degree which our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin defines by the notion expressed in the following words: ‘Look! Look! He already begins to distinguish mama from papa!’" (41)

[Zigzag Idiot]

•                                                                           The way of the Sly Man

It's almost imperative that if we are to become Realized, the capacity for lightheartedness must be cultivated if one does not have this attribute naturally. I was going to make a foolishly bold claim just to be lighthearted. Maybe include that Gurdjieff sometimes referred to 'The Fourth Way' as 'The Way of the Sly Man.'

I did a google search on -The Way of the Sly Man and found a -new to me,- e-magazine. At first glance, it looks like you get fairly regular free material but if you subscribe, as it always is the case, you get more stuff. As synchronicity would have it, I stumbled upon a good article which articulates the idea of Self Remembering much better than my hodgepodge of quotes from yesterday. 

I just copied and pasted a small section from the article.

https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/the-way-of-the-sly-man-the-teachings-of-g-i-gurdjieff

Unlike these paths, the Fourth Way, “the way of the sly man,” does not require withdrawal from the world, but can and should be pursued in the course of everyday life; and instead of working with the mind, the body, or the emotions alone, it works with all three. It is, Gurdjieff claimed, faster and more efficient than the other three ways. “The ‘sly man’ knows the secret,” said Gurdjieff, “and with its help outstrips the fakir, the monk, and the yogi.”

What is the sly man’s “secret”? It is a higher force, an energy that is able to penetrate the being of man and create unity in his centres where there was none before. This energy must come from above, but it will not come by itself; Gurdjieff does not preach quietism but advocates “conscious labours and intentional suffering.” (Indeed Gurdjieff’s disciples refer to his teaching as “the Work”; those attempting to follow it are said to be “in the Work.”) For a long time these “labours” and “sufferings” will consist, not in some sophisticated form of masochism, but in striving to overcome the slumber of daily life and see oneself as one really is.

A central practice of the Fourth Way is self-remembering. “You do not remember yourselves,” Gurdjieff chides Ouspensky’s Petersburg group. “You do not feel yourselves; you are not conscious of yourselves. With you, ‘it observes’ just as ‘it speaks,’ ‘it thinks,’ ‘it laughs.’ You do not feel: Iobserve, I notice, I see.”

Anyone who has read even a little in the literature of contemporary spirituality will find familiar resonances here, for many books emphasise the need for mindfulness. Gurdjieff’s teaching goes still further, for it puts this effort at the centre of the spiritual search. It also gives many more specific practices for “self-remembering”: people in the Work often receive instructions about being consciously present at certain moments of the day or during particular tasks.

Many who have read about – or even practiced – Gurdjieff’s teaching seem to fall into the trap of seeing “self-remembering” as a completely cerebral practice; trying to carry it out, they end up simply being self-conscious in the ordinary sense. They miss an essential part of the practice: that self-remembering entails a conscious effort of sensing the body.

Self-remembering begins with the body because, as the French Gurdjieffian Jean Vaysse puts it, the body “is solid and concrete, with an apparently stable form which can… be relied on to some degree. It is the instrument through which we perceive and our means of action. It can stay still voluntarily and thus is easier than the other parts for us to observe. It is relatively obedient, and we have a certain amount of control over it (in any case more than over our other parts). In addition, it is the one solid material base in us.”

Hence a Gurdjieffian reading this article might attempt to read while giving some attention to the sensation of some part of the body, the foot or hand, say, or even the body as a whole. This may sound simple, but if you try it, you’ll find it isn’t. If you’re lucky, you may be able to keep this “divided attention” for a few seconds before you lose it again. For a long time the Work involves returning to this sensation of the body over and over again no matter what you’re doing. Such attempts are known as “efforts.” They are meant to counteract the sleep of everyday life. Those who persist in this practice find that some of the “maleficent consequences of the properties of the organ kundabuffer” are, if not destroyed, at least interrupted, for these efforts help to dissipate daydreaming, absentmindedness, and the hazy stupor in which we stumble through our lives.

These efforts of attention tie into other aspects of the teaching as well. Gurdjieff defined attention as “the direction of the thinking centre’s activity.” Self-remembering, at least in the early stages, directs the “thinking centre” toward the body, which is governed by the “moving-instinctive centre.” Self-remembering brings these two centres closer together. When the mind is paying attention to the body, they are working a bit more in harmony, and the practitioner is slightly closer to becoming a unified being. (See the accompanying article on page ,,,,,,,,

There is more to this article. For those who are interested, click on the link above or this one.

https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/the-way-of-the-sly-man-the-teachings-of-g-i-gurdjieff

[Zigzag Idiot]

                                                 Purifying the emotional center

Watching Arnold Keyserling give a talk years ago, there was one thing he said that really stuck with me. This goes along with the Fourth Way practice of not expressing negative emotion. NOTE: This doesn't mean repressing! In fact, one should feel everything maybe even more fully, but just not give expression to it if it involves negative emotion. Easier said than done.

Arnold said that if you can go through the cycle of Mars, (2 years) and not express outward any negative emotion, you will never again take anything in a negative way for the rest of this life!

[Zigzag Idiot]

This is a decent movie about Gurdjieff's life. It's got a bit of that 70's cheesiness in it, though,,

This scene has a bit of a riddle in it. It's based actually on a book Gurdjieff wrote. The most readable Of his books IME

Here also is a bit of Gurdjieff's sense of humor. Brother sez and Brother al ,,,,, The riddle concerns them.

[Kazman]

I'm in a Gurdjieff group. The movements are an important tool with lots of power. I think it is a good path for working on embodiment in a householder setting. I think a lot of followers are misled and lost in concepts and fixed ideas. Also, there is too low emphasis among fourth way peeps in general on understanding the substance of reality. But if you read Gurdjieff's source material, it's there.

[Zigzag Idiot]

Welcome. It's good to have another student of the Gurdjieff work here. The movements are one aspect of the Work that I've not participated in. I would like to though sometime. I'm a Mars Essence type with a center of gravity in the instinctive moving Center. Through Cynthia Bourgeault's Work, I've come to appreciate doing sittings as well as physical sensing of the body.

Feel free to visit my Journal and make comments if inclined. I'm a rogue student of the Work as well as the Almaas material.

There's also a Gurdjieff thread in High Consciousness Resources.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

In the Fourth Way it is said that the act of Self remembering really can't be defined because the scope of its breadth and depth cannot be approached because of the limitation of language. A student and Teacher of the Work, Nicholas Tereschenko tried anyway and his attempt is found helpful by many others in the Work. 

He said- Self-remembering is the expansion of the field of Consciousness, so that both the outside and the inside worlds are perceived together in the unity of experience.

Years ago, when I first found the Work or the Fourth Way, I assumed that I already had an inner world and at times I did but this inner world that I experienced was very shallow in its depth. Because of this, things in the outer world were always affecting me greatly and still does at times when I lose contact with the inner parts of my centers. A vital criterion in the ability of making contact with the depth of the inner world is establishing a solid grounding in the belly center aka, the hara. An embodiment in the belly center establishes the possibility of leaving the noise that goes on when we are stuck in the storm that results in a perpetual turbulence that goes on between the mental and emotional worlds. People often get disconnected from their belly center by the time of adolescence and a good many never again will rediscover and achieve a grounding there. Having an erect posture as well as experiencing inner quiet are only minor side effects of rediscovering this embodiment in which your belly expands when breathing like it did for many in childhood. Becoming grounded in the belly center makes it possible for the mental and emotional worlds to disentangle. 

Sensing the physical body is how you 'jailbreak your mind' to use Leo's allegorical description. Sensing, not feeling the body. The heart is the perceptual organ for feeling and intuitive seeing, but only after it becomes the manager-boss of the mind and disentangling has to be accomplished first. Until this happens the mind has you instead of you having a mind. Realization of Being is then possible and then one can have their being.

I began this post with only the intention of sharing Nichols Tereschinko's attempt at describing Self-remembering but in the processes I began to spontaneously download and broadcast. So please pardon the resultant and ensuing spiritual mansplaining. Hope some of you find parts of it useful in some way.

@seeking_brilliance I went to ask A. I. Philosopher once again about the Fourth Way but unless I'm wrong, it seems only to be available now if  one purchases the app.

[seeking_brilliance]

Would you say the Fourth Way is like another retelling of the middle path? 

 

Yes, the open beta has ended, but I wanted to support its awesome development so I paid the 2.99 for the Google app. Here, I asked it again for you--

https://philosopherai.com/philosopher/what-is-the-fourth-way-969aa2

And here's what it said about self remembering

https://philosopherai.com/philosopher/self-remembering-ec21cd

(side note, why does this forum crash many times right as I'm hitting the submit button, I'm not dreaming am I????) 

Edited October 16, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

46 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

Would you say the Fourth Way is like another retelling of the middle path? 

It could be,,, Although I haven't really taken them apart and studied them side by side. There is a lot in common.

 

Thanks for spending the 2.99. AI's answer to both questions were impressive.

54 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

(side note, why does this forum crash many times right as I'm hitting the submit button, I'm not dreaming am I????) 

If that's what causes a loss of a post,,, at times yeah,or no,,, me too. When spending a lot of time in choosing my words and composing a post, it's become a habit for me to copy and paste it to notes and save it before I hit the send button.