Trump admits on tape to downplaying Covid in March

[Jennjenn]

21 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I'm done hating him tbh. I'm emotionally numb to him now. I'm just enjoying the reality TV show that US politics is!

I wish I can be numb to him. 
I just read this article how on election night he will appear to win, but after all the mail in ballots are counted he will actually lose, therefore he’s going to call that a fraud since he’s building momentum on how the mail in ballots are fraudulent. 
He’s not going to leave the White House, he’s going to tell his supporters to riot, and all that freaks out.
After I cast my vote on Election Day I will just sleep for 3 days. 
 

https://www.axios.com/bloomberg-group-trump-election-night-scenarios-a554e8f5-9702-437e-ae75-d2be478d42bb.html

[TrustTheProcess]

@Rajneeshpuram

Ok... you can criticize your country's response. Other countries such as New Zealand, South Korea, and Finland were transparent and quick to act on the matter. They were some of the safest countries during this pandemic. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

I've seen in my country the consequences of exagerating covid instead of "downplaying".

We've had the hardest measures of lockdown and wearing mask 24/7 from all Europe. The old folks nursery homes recieved the protocol of isolating the patients. The people who was unable to eat, drink, walk or move were abandoned. Their medic treatments were suspended, because the nurses were told no to aproach to the  patients. The majority died from starvation, neglect,inattention this has been a gerontocide.

This killed more people that the covid.

It's a question of proportionality. If someone has skin cancer on their finger it is a serious situation because the cancer has potential of spreading. Cutting off their entire arm is an over-reaction. However, saying the cancer is no big deal and will go away on it's own is an under-reaction - it will allow the cancer to spread throughout the body. The best action is to realize the severity of the potential threat and take proportional action to that threat. For example, we may do localized radiation to kill the tumor - rather than chemotherapy that would harm the entire body.

The criticism of Trump is not just that he "downplayed" it - it's that he downplayed it from it's relative threat level. Trump explained that he saw this virus as dangerous because it spread airborne and had a relatively high death rate. Trump under-reacted based on his own assessment of the threat level. He said in private that it is much more dangerous and lethal than a bad flu and tricky to stop, yet it public he said it was simply a bad flu and will go away on its own. Then he under-cut efforts that were proportional to the threat level (such as reducing testing). 

This is based on Trump's own words, Trump intentionally to mislead the public and under-responded by his own assessment of the threat level. Trump himself admits this and justifies it as not wanting to scare the public. Yet if he had good communication skills, he could have educated the public without causing a panic. Someone like Elizabeth Warren would have been able to do that 

[Tetcher]

What is very ironic is people in here that can't understand why Trump supporters keep supporting him after this or that but have no issue with the guru of this place stating that all criticism is untenable and in the same breath indulges in Trump bashing.

[Jennjenn]

22 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

What is very ironic is people in here that can't understand why Trump supporters keep supporting him after this or that but have no issue with the guru of this place stating that all criticism is untenable and in the same breath indulges in Trump bashing.

Who cares what Leo thinks really, (no offense Leo). He’s not the president of the United States. He’s not feeding the culture wars at massive scales. He doesn’t have the power to denied climate change at a world scale with devastating consequences like what is happening in California and Oregon right now. Leo can’t stop funding to those states and NY like Trump is doing right now. 
saying that “NY is dead” because he knows he can never ever come back when NY used to be his play ground. All childish games, like a kid that says “I don’t even want it” when denied of something. 
 

This whataboutism is insane. 

[Forestluv]

38 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

What is very ironic is people in here that can't understand why Trump supporters keep supporting him after this or that

With cognitive / social models like Spiral Dynamics, it's very easy to understand why Trump supporters keep supporting him. The behavior of Trump supporters is very accurately described and predicted with SD. 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

It's a question of proportionality. If someone has skin cancer on their finger it is a serious situation because the cancer has potential of spreading. Cutting off their entire arm is an over-reaction. However, saying the cancer is no big deal and will go away on it's own is an under-reaction - it will allow the cancer to spread throughout the body. The best action is to realize the severity of the potential threat and take proportional action to that threat. For example, we may do localized radiation to kill the tumor - rather than chemotherapy that would harm the entire body.

I was thinking of a way to phrase and this works really well. Here in England a lot of people have criticised Johnson for how hes handled the situation, there are some good arguments for that but on the whole i cant really see what different choices he couldve made apart from taking it more seriously before it even got to the country. In terms of letting people know the situation i would say he even over exaggerated the seriousness of it on occasion to make sure that people took it seriously, which is basically a better safe than sorry strategy which you have to take in these circumstances. But if Johnson ever did what Trump did, he probably wouldve been thrown out of office, so its really mind boggling that Trump could even stand a chance at the election. 

37 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

What is very ironic is people in here that can't understand why Trump supporters keep supporting him after this or that but have no issue with the guru of this place stating that all criticism is untenable and in the same breath indulges in Trump bashing.

Ive seen some diversion tactics but, and i hope everyone is in agreement, i want to nominate you for the prestigious award of 'Most Ridiculous Instance of Whataboutism' for dismissing any Trump wrong doing with a comparison to the owner of a Self-Actualization forum, truly breathtaking diversion tactics. 

If we do agree that Leo's statement is wrong and hes evil or whatever, does that change the Trump situation or....

[Bodigger]

3 hours ago, Jennjenn said:

After I cast my vote on Election Day I will just sleep for 3 days. 

You might just as well go into hibernation until Thanksgiving, because it will most likely take that long to count the votes in Pennsylvania.

[Jennjenn]

3 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

You might just as well go into hibernation until Thanksgiving

Hahaha this actually sounds awesome 

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

You might just as well go into hibernation until Thanksgiving, because it will most likely take that long to count the votes in Pennsylvania.

I think this is an important point. Most of the media and public see elections as a sporting even that is decided on Election Night. This is awesome for ratings. Yet with more mail-in voting, the mindset needs to change from Election Night to Election Week - it may not be decided on Nov. 3rd. 

[Bodigger]

I am quite sure Biden censured Trump for terminating flights to and from China and was called a racist for doing so.  According to the Left, it really isn't  significant what Trump does, he will be trashed for it.  Fauci was on CNN last night saying that he is in agreement with Trump and the significance of how he stated the crisis.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Bodigger

1 minute ago, Bodigger said:

According to the Left, it really isn't  significant what Trump does, he will be trashed for it. 

So what criticisms of trump specifically do you think are unfair?

[Bodigger]

3 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I think this is an important point. Most of the media and public see elections as a sporting even that is decided on Election Night. This is awesome for ratings. Yet with more mail-in voting, the mindset needs to change from Election Night to Election Week - it may not be decided on Nov. 3rd. 

Hell yeah....If you are in the media and have a chance to show a new Super Bowl every night for a week.....well there you go.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Bodigger said:

I am quite sure Biden censured Trump for terminating flights to and from China and was called a racist for doing so.  According to the Left, it really isn't  significant what Trump does, he will be trashed for it.  Fauci was on CNN last night saying that he is in agreement with Trump and the significance of how he stated the crisis.

Saying Trump "terminated flights to and from China" isn't 100% accurate and misleading imo.

Of course Biden and dems deserve criticism. The problem with being a 100% loyalist to Trump is that Trump is 0% responsible. A person cannot have an objective big picture view with that mindset because it will be consumed with defending Trump 100% of the time. Trump is not 100% responsible, yet he has significant responsibility in the poor covid response. Blaming others 100% and taking 0% personal responsibility is irresponsible and playing a victim. 

This is related to a previous thread on systemic racism in which I see it as a combination of external and internal factors. The external factor of China's negligence is a factor and they are partially responsible. Yet Trump also has some personal responsibility that he refuses to look at, so he blames 100% on others. Trump often plays the victim. 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Hell yeah....If you are in the media and have a chance to show a new Super Bowl every night for a week.....well there you go.

That is a great way for the media to re-frame it!! They get seven days of a sporting event!! Kinda like the playoffs or a mini-series. 

[Bodigger]

1 minute ago, louhad said:

@Bodigger

So what criticisms of trump specifically do you think are unfair?

Well....This is the most recent, which was the topic last week;

President Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

I am sure there will be one lie per week for the next 8 weeks....at least.  How many unnamed sources are out there LOL.

[TrustTheProcess]

@Bodigger

well, There is straight up recordings of him saying something along the lines of "If you didn't go to Vietnam, you could just go on the dating scene and get a medal of honor from that. More men Die at the hands of women than from Vietnam. " This man literally used his privilege to avoid fighting in that war. 

There is also video evidence of him calling John McCain, someone who was captured and tortured in vietnam for 5 years and refused to be saved unless they released all other men in captivity, a loser and tried to prevent the white house from lowering their flags for him when he died...

These are a few examples and I have tagged some things below if you are interested. Is it that hard to believe that he would call veterans losers behind closed doors? 

 

[Bodigger]

@louhad  Okay, you win.  He's an asshole.

I Love you.

[Parththakkar12]

28 minutes ago, louhad said:

These are a few examples and I have tagged some things below if you are interested. Is it that hard to believe that he would call veterans losers behind closed doors? 

It seems to me that you're holding him to a standard of 'You shouldn't be hypocritical', which is a Stage Blue standard. At Stage Blue, you have the ability to follow a fixed ideology and act according to it, stay true to it. Hypocrisy will be considered a bad thing at Stage Blue and above.

The Donald, however, is at Stage Red. Hypocrisy doesn't count as a bad thing for him. This means that he can get very sneaky with ideology. He can claim to believe one thing today because it suits him, then claim to believe the exact opposite tomorrow if it suits him! His ego will trick him into genuinely believing that he does indeed believe the thing he's espousing in that specific moment. If he calls veterans losers today because it suits him, that's what he believes today. In private though, that may not be the case! Maybe he will extol the virtues of veterans in private moments after he called them losers in public, because it suits him.

Now you may ask 'How could it possibly suit him to call veterans losers?' Ummm.... I guess all survival strategies aren't created equal. His survival strategies probably aren't sophisticated enough to understand Stage Blue morality and good manners, and that you shouldn't call veterans losers.

Man, The sneaky fucking Donald. Trips up everyone in the world and everyone's confused.

Leo had said somewhere that he's pre-fascist. I don't disagree. Fascism is an ideology, but he's incapable of identifying with any one ideology. He's pre-ideological, he's literally just an opportunist. He has never learned morality in his life, which is why morality doesn't compute for him!

Edited September 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Bodigger said:

Okay, you win.  He's an asshole.

Does Trump need to be either 100% good or 100% asshole? 

If a person has a flaw, does that make them 100% asshole?

If the bible has an inaccuracy, does that make it 100% bullshit?