The current understanding of our situation makes no sense - Let me clearly explain

[Johnny5]

37 minutes ago, arlin said:

I the truth is that you don't exist and you don't have free will.

Tell me how are you going to live a normal and beautifull life knowing those things. 

Tell me. Have you got an idea of what you are getting yourself into?

Those kind of things are not for you. When you discover by experience that you don't exist, and you don't have free will, all that you will ever want is to be normal again. And just live a normal life. Which doesn't mean settling for less.

@arlin You've always had exactly as much or as little free will as you do now, nothing changed except your ideas about it. You can still do everything you always could do. The idea of "no free will" could never stop you, unless you let it. Remember, your beliefs about truth are never true... Use your insights to set yourself free, not to imprison yourself.  ? 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Johnny5

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

@Leo Gura Well, because having connections, working on life purpose, enjoying moments with others, is a jail cell.

And going around like you don't exist, having no free will is the real,real life. 

Actually, you are doing the same things i described only in a different way. So why are you making those distinctions between jail cell and life?

 

IT'S presicely because i as studying all those spiritual nonsense that i got MISERABLE and depressed.

There are teachings out there that are say that life is hopeless, including those non duality brainwashers. Not everything about spirituality is wonderfull.

That simply means you've got more karma to burn through and lower Achiever stages to master. By all means, go for it.

If spirituality seems like nonsense to you, then you simply aren't ready for it yet.

[Endangered-EGO]

@arlin  That's because you are using it as an nihilistic escape from reality.

I tend to do that too.

What Kundalini showed me, is that I need to live my life to the fullest, and not escape from it by meditating.

There is no way out, and apparently I was told that in every past life I wanted it to be the last, but then decided to reincarnate eventually. I still don't wish to reincarnate now, but I'll probably change my mind.

We tend to feel like life is more suffering than pleasure.

[arlin]

17 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

You've always had exactly as much or as little free will as you do now, nothing changed except your ideas about it. You can still do everything you always could do. The idea of "no free will" could never stop you, unless you let it. Remember, your beliefs about truth are never true... Use your insights to set yourself free, not to imprison yourself.

Thank you. this brings some comfort.

@Leo Gura Yes.

 

[arlin]

27 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

@arlin You've always had exactly as much or as little free will as you do now, nothing changed except your ideas about it. You can still do everything you always could do. The idea of "no free will" could never stop you, unless you let it. Remember, your beliefs about truth are never true... Use your insights to set yourself free, not to imprison yourself.  ? 

The problem is, i listened to too much jim newman and no free will teachings and now it is running in my subconscious.

It seems like i can't stop it.

[Johnny5]

Just now, arlin said:

The problem is, i listened to too much jim newman and no free will teachings and now it is running in my subconscious.

It seems like i can't stop it.

No need to stop it to use it for your benefit.

Head in the sand will not make you happy, and growing pains are alright.

[arlin]

Just now, Johnny5 said:

No need to stop it to use it for your benefit.

So what do i do with it when it implies that im an automat, and not a human being? That i don't exist?

[Someone here]

@WHO IS perhaps if you understand there is nothing to understand 

@arlin you don't have free will because you don't exist.  The small self that is. Is an illusion. It's just a thought. A thought can't be the source of thoughts!  However the true self which is who you really are has nothing to do with all that nonsense.. It's just pure detached awareness. 

[Johnny5]

Just now, arlin said:

So what do i do with it when it implies that im an automat, and not a human being? That i don't exist?

Same as before you ever heard about it. Except now you don't need to keep carrying all that guilt and blame etc. about yourself or put yourself down. You can forgive and accept yourself exactly as you are because there was never anything to forgive. You were always just perfectly you, even when others don't really see or understand it.

[arlin]

Just now, Someone here said:

you don't have free will because you don't exist.  The small self that is. Is an illusion. It's just a thought. A thought can't be the source of thoughts!  However the true self which is who you really are has nothing to do with all that nonsense.. It's just pure detached awareness.

I know it's awareness but now what do i do? It means im trapped in a body which is not my own.

[Tim R]

Just now, arlin said:

It means im trapped in a body which is not my own.

Oh honey

[arlin]

3 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Same as before you ever heard about it. Except now you don't need to keep carrying all that guilt and blame etc. about yourself or put yourself down. You can forgive and accept yourself exactly as you are because there was never anything to forgive. You were always just perfectly you, even when others don't really see or understand it.

It seems like your non existance to you is a concept.

you don't live detached from your body every second in you personal experience. What im saying is, that this split can create a profound detached for myself which is called depersonalization. And it's horrific.

[Someone here]

Just now, arlin said:

I know it's awareness but now what do i do? 

2 minutes ago, arlin said:

 

 

There is nothing to do and nowhere to go.  Whatever you do and wherever you go you will be back right here with this. Nothing.  

2 minutes ago, arlin said:

It means im trapped in a body which is not my own. 

The body is inside awareness. Awareness is not inside the body. Take a look. 

[Johnny5]

 

1 minute ago, arlin said:

It seems like your non existance to you is a concept.

you don't live detached from your body every second in you personal experience. What im saying is, that this split can create a profound detached for myself which is called depersonalization. And it's horrific.

Sorry to hear that, I didn't know. It's also not what Jim Newman talks about, so apologies for the confusion.

I don't know what depersonalization is like, so I'm afraid that I can't say much about it.

Do hope that you recover from it and don't mistake it for the truth either.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, arlin said:

It seems like your non existance to you is a concept.

you don't live detached from your body every second in you personal experience. What im saying is, that this split can create a profound detached for myself which is called depersonalization. And it's horrific.

Forget the ideas and the concepts. Spirituality is about forget , not about change your actual sistem of thoughts for another

[arlin]

3 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Sorry to hear that, I didn't know. It's also not what Jim Newman talks about, so apologies for the confusion.

I don't know what depersonalization is like, so I'm afraid that I can't say much about it.

Do hope that you recover from it and don't mistake it for the truth either.

Depersonalization is when you know you are a robot and can look inside yourself to such a degree to diconfigurize yourself. basically i can see my decisions are coming from nothing and are not my own. it's a state of detatchment.

that's why i say i get   a feeling that jim newman doesn't describe this. And neither do all the other spiritual people.

Because in the end, the experience is that he has free will and so do everybody else.

Like you, even if you are spiritual maybe believe in no free will but you live your life and it feels like you are making choices. Your choices. Right?

It's not what im experiencing. To me the idea of an identity is a concept im trying to grasp and no free will can be my ordianary life. 

But it can be solved. 

So did you get it?

[Johnny5]

@arlin I've heard about depersonalization, but I've never had it like you do.

On "the road to truth" there are many things to realize (or rather un-realize), and from your description it sounds like depersonalization has some aspects of that, but in a highly partial and incomplete way.

Understand that the experience of free will is not actual free will. Nobody experiences actual free will, they only think that's what it is. It is an imputation of the mind that says "this over here is my choice and that over there is not". When in truth there is no distinction between the two.

You were never concerned about not choosing to grow your hear or digest your food, right? Why not? Hope you can kinda see what I'm getting at. The distinction between voluntary and involuntary is an illusion, it always was. In one sense, everything was always voluntary, and yet in another sense, nothing was ever voluntary. When you really get down to it, nothing anyone might say about it is factual.

"Conceptual" means much more than just thinking about something, it determines how you actually experience things. Neither way of experiencing is any more true than the other, they never were. Same with the experience of the body being yours or not yours. It is, and it isn't. It can be experienced either way, but it doesn't really change anything other than how it appears.

Hope that makes sense at least in theory. Not sure that I'm of any help as regards the condition itself.

[FlowerNote]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

By definition, Infinite Love Forever cannot have any form or person there. It feels a lot like if you were physically merged with every living being in the universe to the point where all of you became an undifferentiated soup of Love. It's like entering a black hole of Love from which there is no desire to return. You give up the desire to have any concrete personhood or form so that you could merge for fully with every part of the universe.

It's like having an infinitely long, infinite intensely orgasm that is so intense that it kills the body and just keeps going forever beyond the body because the body cannot contain so much Love. It is literally an Endless Ocean of Love in which all memory of having been a human or a person is lost. That is God in its purest form. But this degree of Love is not possible for humans because they choose to be finite and separate from things.

Imagine becoming ONE with a chainsaw. That's real Love

Why do you say Infinite Love is the end? if I lose all memory why could I not create new dreams/seperations again? didn't all our lives come from this soup of infinite love to begin with?

[gswva]

7 hours ago, FlowerNote said:

Why do you say Infinite Love is the end?

God is learning how to become the most lovable entity that could ever possibly exist. Consciousness creates everything imaginable, merges structures together and always seeks the path to the highest love.

So there is the theoretical existence of a point where our awareness of all understandings is so high, it forms a singularity of infinite beauty and desirability. I'm not sure if we can actually confirm that it's possible, but maybe we are already inside it that's how it appears to us.

(I can't draw but here is a sketch)