Is DMSA a supplement or a drug?

[narkuser]

10 minutes ago, Harikrishnan said:

Its not like mercury amalgams. Only some sites says about gutta percha containing mercury. Do you know any alternative for these fillings that doesnt have any metals?

I searched for what  Andy Cutler wrote about Gutta Percha. He said he has one of those root canals himself, and that it is not a problem for most people.

This is the search I did on Onibasu: http://onibasu.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=%2Bfrom%3A"cutler"+gutta&submit=Search!&max=100&sort=score&idxname=nn&idxname=fdc&idxname=amc

However this is a very specific question, and I am not an expert. Probably you should ask about these things in the ACC forum.

[Leo Gura]

If your fillings are metal, you should get them replaced with ceramic before doing chelation. Otherwise you could really damage your body as chelation will move metal from your fillings into your brain and organs.

[narkuser]

Also I found this answer, with Andy Cutler answering to a similar question:

Quote

<< << Root canals contain mercury in the area nearest the nerves and blood supply and it gets surrounded with other manmade materials and has no other way out but directly into those. >>

Is this always the case? When I had a root canal, I was referred by my dentist to an endodontist. When I asked about the material used, he told me that he used a rubber material. >>

It is not always the case. Sometimes there is a small amount of mercury as preservative in the rubber, sometimes not. The real problem is when they open your gum and use a "retrograde amalgam filling" to seal off the bottom end of the root with mercury amalgam. That is 50% mercury and dissolves into your bloodstream very well. That also shows up very clearly on x-ray. If you have one of these it has to come out before you chelate or you are going to get very sick.

Andy Cutler

Source: http://onibasu.com/archives/am/3688.html

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by narkuser

[Michael569]

Metal fillings contain elemental mercury. Poorly absorbed, mostly excreted and the daily dose you get is absolutely negligible compared to things like canned tuna containing high amounts of methyl-mercury. This form is readily absorbed, may even cross the blood-brain barrier and wreak havoc in your brain.  

Additionally, there is a huge trend of eating bone-broth these days ever since Kylie Jenner made her ridiculous nutrition video. Bone broth is pretty much just a lead-filled disgusting goup. (source)  Careful with the most obvious toxic sources. Dental fillings are not good but even if half your mouth has mercury, you are getting nowhere near what you get from eating big fish and many typical bottom-dwellers. 

That being said it is still a good idea to get them removed at some point. Just don't do it all at once and make sure you see a holistic dentist who will protect both you and him/herself. They need to take extreme precautions otherwise you can ingest a lot of it in a single go. Don't let untrained dentist remove your mercury fillings, make sure to ask about their training in this. 

[Harikrishnan]

Its not clear yet and most sites doesnt have any info whether gutta percha have mercury in them. Have to check my dentist.

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Metal fillings contain elemental mercury. Poorly absorbed, mostly excreted and the daily dose you get is absolutely negligible compared to things like canned tuna containing high amounts of methyl-mercury. This form is readily absorbed, may even cross the blood-brain barrier and wreak havoc in your brain.  

This is incorrect.

Elemental mercury is highly dangerous, more so than methyl-mercury for the brain. Methyl-mercury cannot cross the blood-brain barrier while elemental mercury can. Elemental mercury does, however, have low bio-availability if ingested. But mercury can be inhaled, not just ingested since mercury gives off fumes. Metal fillings aren't so much ingested as they give off fumes. So metal fillings are a very serious problem if you got them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3514464/

[Michael569]

@Leo Gura agreed but it is about how much you absorb in terms of nano-grams mercury. I can't recall the source anymore but from a can of tuna, you get like 200% over the daily limit where from each filling there is less than 0.1% of maximum recommended allowance (not sure if that included the fumes thou). If I find the source, I will share it. 

[Michael569]

@Leo Gura this is the source I believe https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4724159/

In 2012, the Korea Food and Drug Administration (KFDA) reported on the exposure contribution rate by medium in different age groups, based on the data on mercury concentrations in food. According to the report, the exposure contribution rate of inhalation from the air was 0.47–0.83 %, ingestion of drinking water (tap water) was 0.01–0.02 %, and ingestion of soil, 0.03–0.32 %; all of them were highest in infants and toddlers. The study also reported that the major medium of mercury exposure was food, as shown by the fact that mercury exposure by ingestion of food accounted for 98.85–99.48 % 

You were right that elemental mercury crosses BBB and methyl does not.  But it seems they are both widely distributed and stored across brain (more elemental) and kidneys (both). Just the absorption and transportation methods wary. 

The problem also is that urine, hair and blood are NOT trustworthy markers of tissue concentration and you actually need to sample biological tissue (e.g. kidney or brain biopsy) but who would do that . 

The general laboratory tests to evaluate mercury intoxication include complete blood cell count, electrolyte assays, and renal and hepatic function tests. Electrocardiography (ECG), pulmonary function test (PFT), cardiovascular monitoring, electroneuromyography, and neuropsychological tests are also used for the evaluation. <-- this shows that simply basing information on bunch of hair or urine test is just not reliable. 

[Leo Gura]

@Michael569 Definitely don't be eating tuna. That's just crazy to begin with.

But as that research link says, mercury from fish seems to not pass the blood-brain barrier. Not sure if I fully trust that. But that's what it says.

[Michael569]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Definitely don't be eating tuna. That's just crazy to begin with.

But as that research link says, mercury from fish seems to not pass the blood-brain barrier. Not sure how if I fully trust that. But that's what it says.

Haha let's just agree that we need to protect ourselves from all possible (large or small) sources. Yah tuna ain't good for ya. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Michael569 said:

The problem also is that urine, hair and blood are NOT trustworthy markers of tissue concentration and you actually need to sample biological tissue (e.g. kidney or brain biopsy) but who would do that .

Which is why urine tests need to done provoked with DMSA and ALA. Then you can see how much is being pulled from your organs.

You can do one urine test unprovoked, and a second one provoked. The difference between them will show you how much is coming out of your organs.

[Michael569]

@Leo Gura Good point! Seems DMSA definitely has the largest amount of evidence behind it. I wonder about chlorella and other "so called" chelators. Shame we don't have many studies on those. 

 

[Leo Gura]

From what I have found, DMSA + ALA + zeolite is the best and most proven combo.

Cilantro, chlorela, and spirulina are also said to be good, but probably not as powerful as the above.

[Michael569]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I have found, DMSA + ALA + zeolite is the best and most proven combo.

Cilantro, chlorela, and spirulina are also said to be good, but probably not as powerful as the above.

Thanks, I'll add this to my "to research" list. 

I'd say adding NAC to the potential free radical aftermath to increase glutathione could be helpful and a short term supplementation of powerful multivitamin and Zinc to mop-up any damage as that stuff is being moved around. 

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I have found, DMSA + ALA + zeolite is the best and most proven combo.

Cilantro, chlorela, and spirulina are also said to be good, but probably not as powerful as the above.

ALA, DMSA, and DMPS work well if taken correctly simply because they have a DOUBLE thiol group and the metal can situate itself in between these like a hook. Cilantro/chlorella/etc and other potential “chelators“ are often suspected of chelation because they have a thiol group... but they only have ONE... so no hook, just redistribution city.

ALA can also effectively purge iron (which many people have in excess even if they are anemic) via the inhibition of copper excretion, as copper depletes iron. This is kind of a good thing but after long periods the copper level will get very toxic, so molybdenum (~1mg daily) and zinc (~30mg daily) are needed around the clock (4 doses a day) if doing very long rounds, for proper copper excretion. Honestly, I think a sizable chunk of the benefit of ALA chelation is its iron detoxifying effect.

ALA also depletes biotin, which is why some ALA products have biotin in them — like Jarrow formulas. Do not treat extended release ALA as anything other than normal ALA — it must be taken every 3 hours, as the absorption rates vary along the entire digestive tract.

[narkuser]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I have found, DMSA + ALA + zeolite is the best and most proven combo.

Cilantro, chlorela, and spirulina are also said to be good, but probably not as powerful as the above.

Mmmmm interesting, that is controversial then. The people from ACC say that zeolite does nothing, and that cilantro and chlorela are actually harmful. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by narkuser

[The0Self]

15 minutes ago, narkuser said:

Mmmmm interesting, that is controversial then. The people from ACC say that zeolite does nothing, and that cilantro and chlorela are actually harmful. 

Don’t know about zeolite but the chlorella and cilantro are certainly harmful. Anything without a double thiol group to act as a grip for the metal to situate between is not a real chelator.

[Michael569]

4 hours ago, The0Self said:

ALA, DMSA, and DMPS work well if taken correctly simply because they have a DOUBLE thiol group and the metal can situate itself in between these like a hook. Cilantro/chlorella/etc and other potential “chelators“ are often suspected of chelation because they have a thiol group... but they only have ONE... so no hook, just redistribution city.

You know your shit bruh! I heard about the thiol group being able to replace the mineral in their centre (is it magnesium?) with the metal but never knew how this really works. Thanks for clarifying

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, narkuser said:

The people from ACC say that zeolite does nothing

Zeolite is crazy effective at soaking up heavy metals.

[Harikrishnan]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Zeolite is crazy effective at soaking up heavy metals.

Did you take it along with Dmsa and Ala. Ie same gram 8 times a day? Read good reviews about this item https://www.amazon.in/Health-Zeolite-Pure-gram-Powder/dp/B01N2NK7UM

Edited September 11, 2020 by Harikrishnan