Reference to Leo Gura and Psychedelic States

[Michal__]

2 hours ago, raphaelbaumann said:

If the universe really ends then, shouldn't then the first person doing it be the last one aswell? I mean how otherwise? I'm actually really interested in understanding why you often make this point @Leo Gura

Maybe he is the first and the last. You know, alpha & omega and stuff.

 

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, raphaelbaumann said:

If the universe really ends then, shouldn't then the first person doing it be the last one aswell? I mean how otherwise? I'm actually really interested in understanding why you often make this point @Leo Gura

There are no persons. Or ofc "there is" if you are imagining persons to exist, but still, try to ask yourself this: What is a person? Like really, what is it?

 

[Javfly33]

12 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

There are no persons. Or ofc "there is" if you are imagining persons to exist, but still, try to ask yourself this: What is a person? Like really, what is it?

 

So the theory is, the first "person" from where Consciousness executes a Mahasamadhi or an absolute and total merge with Infinite Love, will be the responsible of annihilating the whole Universe and Reality?

So basically we humans depend on not anybody being able to execute this. Because once somebody executes this everything will be gone..all humans "life's", included. 

@WaveInTheOcean @Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@AwakenedSoul444 If you don't incarnate as a giraffe, who will?

[Leo Gura]

@WaveInTheOcean What you're saying isn't wrong. But it's also not entirely right.

I gurantee you are nowhere close to infinitely conscious. So this thing you call "enlightenment", or just being in the present moment, is limited stuff. It's weak sauce consciousness that seems ultimate just because you know nothing higher.

If you are incarnated as a living being, you are finite. And no amount of fancy talk about how present you are will change that.

On your state of consciousness hinges everything. Don't go thinking you are above states. You ain't. You are stuck in a state at all times. An extremely limited state.

If you fully awoke, you would cease to exist in that body. The only reason you are here is because you don't want to be fully awake. Otherwise you'd be Infinity. And no, you are not Infinity, even though you are Infinity.

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And no, you are not Infinity, even though you are Infinity.

Yeah so it's all the same and it's all different.. So what exactly is the "problem"?..what do you want out of these trippy "states"?   Most enlightened masters that you say haven't accessed these states that you talk about are obviously conscious that reality =infinity.. That's it INFINITY.. What else can you become conscious of generally speaking?  Whatever paranormal state you've accessed are not beyond the infinite.. Since it's infinite there will always be more states and trippy realms to access.. Via luicd dreaming or hallucinogens or whatever we might discover in the future... Shit there might be aliens out there who can manifest objects out of thin air..!!!

.. But what exactly does that have to do with inner wisdom or living a liberated life?  At least these traditional masters are badass enough to have done it all sober. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

are obviously conscious that reality =infinity.. That's it INFINITY.. What else can you become conscious of generally speaking?

There are many degrees of infinity.

And they are worth accessing.

If you are interested in Consciousness, then reaching higher degrees of infinity is something you should be interested in.

You can discover ever deeper layers to how reality is constructed. This is not just chasing states. This is profound, life-changing stuff. This is a pursuit for those who actually care to understand how reality works at the deepest levels.

Liberation may be one thing, but understanding is something else.

[Johnny5]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not just chasing states. This is profound, life-changing stuff.

 

I agree with that ? 

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura can't hallucinogens like DMT be potentially addictive?   You tell me this substance will show you God and infinite unconditional love,,  I haven't done any psychedelic before but I would like that might make me addicted! 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

can't hallucinogens like DMT be potentially addictive?

Not really. They tend to be anti-addictive.

But then again, if you are irresponsible, anything can be psychologically addictive. But it is not physically addictive at all and it has no withdrawal.

Don't do anything just because you hear me talking about it. You must feel compelled to do it of your own volition, not because someone tells you to.

[Michal__]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of infinity.

And they are worth accessing.

If you are interested in Consciousness, then reaching higher degrees of infinity is something you should be interested in.

You can discover ever deeper layers to how reality is constructed. This is not just chasing states. This is profound, life-changing stuff. This is a pursuit for those who actually care to understand how reality works at the deepest levels.

Liberation may be one thing, but understanding is something else.

You hit the nail on the head. Frank is liberated, while your work is about understanding. So yeah, psychadelic induced peak states are obviously what works best for that, but who knows, maybe there is still something better.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Michal__

[Someone here]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not really. They tend to be anti-addictive.

But then again, if you are irresponsible, anything can be psychologically addictive. But it is not physically addictive at all and it has no withdrawal.

Don't do anything just because you hear me talking about it. You must feel compelled to do it of your own volition, not because someone tells you to.

Yes you are right.  Even tho there is few cases of people suffering from psychological problems like schizophrenia etc from taking LSD and other substances but it seems like the problem is with the person more than it is in the substance. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

17 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Because once somebody executes this everything will be gone..all humans "life's", included. 

@WaveInTheOcean @Leo Gura

it is already gone, that's the point

[Adamq8]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of infinity.

And they are worth accessing.

If you are interested in Consciousness, then reaching higher degrees of infinity is something you should be interested in.

You can discover ever deeper layers to how reality is constructed. This is not just chasing states. This is profound, life-changing stuff. This is a pursuit for those who actually care to understand how reality works at the deepest levels.

Liberation may be one thing, but understanding is something else.

Yes i agree to this, understanding leads to a better life, atleast in my experience.

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

it is already gone, that's the point

If God is the present moment, and the present moment is my most intimate experience...that means I am literally God.

You are imaginary.

See there's no way I will be able to digest this.

Have you?

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@WaveInTheOcean What you're saying isn't wrong. But it's also not entirely right.

I gurantee you are nowhere close to infinitely conscious. So this thing you call "enlightenment", or just being in the present moment, is limited stuff. It's weak sauce consciousness that seems ultimate just because you know nothing higher.

If you are incarnated as a living being, you are finite. And no amount of fancy talk about how present you are will change that.

On your state of consciousness hinges everything. Don't go thinking you are above states. You ain't. You are stuck in a state at all times. An extremely limited state.

If you fully awoke, you would cease to exist in that body. The only reason you are here is because you don't want to be fully awake. Otherwise you'd be Infinity. And no, you are not Infinity, even though you are Infinity.

Well, everyone are already in the present moment. The present moment, the now, is all there is. Being in it -- we all are.

I'm talking about surrendering to it. But sure, in order to surrender to it, you have to become loving/conscious enough of yourself  -- your ego -- so you can transcend all your selfish survival-ideas and merge with your true self, God. The paradox of this 'complete surrendering' is that -- in the end -- this includes transcending the idea that 'one could ever become more or less conscious'. This idea of 'degrees of consciousness' is a useful tool pre-awakening. But in the end, even that idea has to be transcended. It is relatively true that person X is more conscious then person Y, but absolutely speakning, nothing we can write or think with words is true.

As long as you believe that you yourself or anyone could ever be more or less conscious, you will keep chasing yourself, never being Being itself and resting in Being.

What I'm saying is that enlightenment to me is a complete freedom (cos one has given up his/her freedom), complete free expression (no resistance to anything), complete control (cos one has given up control), complete knowledge of Oneness (sees that everything is The Self or 'I'). A basic state of unity, seeing yourself in everything, seeing all events, all things as one Infinite Eternal Happening that is manifested by one's own Divine Will as that Infinite Happening itself. I may not know how to shine The Sun or how to beat the heart, but that doesn't mean it's not something I do. I do it unconsciously of course - just as I some times (quite often) breathe unconsciously.

To be infinitely conscious is to be infinitely unconscious, don't you see? 

It's concept, man, just as everything I write is. It's just pointers.

If you believe you can become more conscious, of course you can. Spiral Dynamics, Levels of Consciousness, etc. ... But it's a game. A game of duality. Might be useful though, sure. Just as Einstein's General Relativey is useful. But what is useful and not-useful is an opinion of ego.
 

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If you are incarnated as a living being, you are finite.

I'm not incarnated as a living being/human person.
I'm imagining that I'm living as a living being/human person.
It's a game of mine as God. I dig it quite a lot.
The sour with the sweet, the sweet with the sour.
How could I know what's sweet, if I don't know what's sour?
How could I know what infinity is, if I don't know what finity is?
 

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On your state of consciousness hinges everything. Don't go thinking you are above states. You ain't. You are stuck in a state at all times. An extremely limited state.

To believe (blindly) in states is to be asleep.

Believing in states as a relative idea, as a concept-game, can have its uses within the dreamscape, sure, but it's just that: belief. Believing in it dogmatically/unconsciously will make your "subjective" stream-of-experience be (feel like) an apparent experience of separateness and division; as opposed to an experience of wholeness, interconnectedness, unity, love and infinite mystery.
 

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If you fully awoke, you would cease to exist in that body.

I don't exist in any body. I can think and speak from the-perspective-of-a-body, and I get so-called sensory inputs through one, but I don't exist inside any body. I exist nowhere, thus everywhere. 
 

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The only reason you are here is because you don't want to be fully awake. 

I am nowhere. You believing ' I am here ' is exactly that: belief. In actuality You/I are nowhere; We aren't any thing and we have no location.

Again, awake vs. asleep ('degrees of consciousness'): It is - perhaps - the final duality you have to transcend if you want to awake  Oh, the paradox of all paradoxes, the strange loop of all strange loops ...  
 

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And no, you are not Infinity, even though you are Infinity.

hehe  love you! <3

[WaveInTheOcean]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of infinity.

And they are worth accessing.

If you are interested in Consciousness, then reaching higher degrees of infinity is something you should be interested in.

You can discover ever deeper layers to how reality is constructed. This is not just chasing states. This is profound, life-changing stuff. This is a pursuit for those who actually care to understand how reality works at the deepest levels.

Liberation may be one thing, but understanding is something else.

Understanding is always limited and relative. 

I'm not saying that understanding can't be improved or that understanding isn't good. Understanding is fucking amazing. But you cannot eat the menu.

[Dodo]

Non of this matters, since no body is enlightened - there is no enlightened meat. There is One enlightened being that all bodies refer to. There is no point comparing Leo and Frank. They are both characters in waking dream. 

Leo is no claiming enlightenment simply because that Avatar of God has realised that the Avatar is NOT enlightened. It is the empty self that is the enlightened One. Not Leo. Leo is just a vehicle for the divine. So is Frank Yang, but they are two completely different vehicles and the light shines through differently. 

I've had one of the most authentic experiences with Leo, I've seen his most authentic self inside my dream, I know that God speaks through him very cleanly. Frank is cool and I like his style  and energy, but seems like he doesn't understand that claiming enlightenment is one of the most non-enlightened things to do... There is absolutely no point for Leo to sit here and tell people he is enlightened. Authenticity is not something you have to tell people that you are, lmao. Same for Enlightenment. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dodo

[Javfly33]

34 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Non of this matters, since no body is enlightened - there is no enlightened meat. There is One enlightened being that all bodies refer to. There is no point comparing Leo and Frank. They are both characters in waking dream. 

Leo is no claiming enlightenment simply because that Avatar of God has realised that the Avatar is NOT enlightened. It is the empty self that is the enlightened One. Not Leo. Leo is just a vehicle for the divine. So is Frank Yang, but they are two completely different vehicles and the light shines through differently. 

I've had one of the most authentic experiences with Leo, I've seen his most authentic self inside my dream, I know that God speaks through him very cleanly. Frank is cool and I like his style  and energy, but seems like he doesn't understand that claiming enlightenment is one of the most non-enlightened things to do... There is absolutely no point for Leo to sit here and tell people he is enlightened. Authenticity is not something you have to tell people that you are, lmao. Same for Enlightenment. 

But it's true that in some bodies the Self is more awake than others.

So saying that a person is Enlightened, even if it's.not true in the technical sense since there's no person, I think it's still useful wouldn't you agree?

[Dodo]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But it's true that in some bodies the Self is more awake than others.

So saying that a person is Enlightened, even if it's.not true in the technical sense since there's no person, I think it's still useful wouldn't you agree?

Yes I would say we can speak about which body is more integrated with the Truth. And I would say that not claiming enlightenment is way more aligned with truth than claiming it. Claiming enlightenment and not claiming it however are the same, since these words mean nothing, they are in time, in the story and have nothing to do with Truth. 

It would be more aligned to be completely authentic to yourself, have wife and kids for example, a ukulele, being humble etc... GIving time to unimportant people without getting anything in return in order to help them and just talk -being nice... Or authenticity for you might mean to be a celibate monk... For Leo it would perhaps be to become a Zen-like master who would teach others using meta techniques that the student will only understand later on in hindsight.. "Ohhh that's why he did that/said that" 

Soo no I wouldnt say Frank Yang is enlightened, he is aligned with Truth thanks to his practice. As the formless Self he is always Enlightened. That's why his body can exist in the first place! But the one who practices doesnt practice to become enlightened, but to become aligned with the eternal truth.

Leo is more closely aligned, I must say from my point of view, but I will never know, because I have to see it from their point of view to know truly. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dodo