Reference to Leo Gura and Psychedelic States

[Dodo]

26 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But it's true that in some bodies the Self is more awake than others.

So saying that a person is Enlightened, even if it's.not true in the technical sense since there's no person, I think it's still useful wouldn't you agree?

From mercy comes courage
From frugality comes generosity
From humility comes leadership

Now if one were bold but had no mercy, if one were broad but were not frugal, if one went ahead without humility one would die.
Love vanquishes all attackers. It is impregnable in defense. When heaven wants 
to protect someone, does it send an army? No.. It protects him with Love. 
 

From the Tao te ching

I'd say Frank Yang's expression of the divine is a bit too masculine. The type of HERE I AM, in your face enlightened. Yeah he is not lying or anything, but he will not be the leader that Leo is and can be. 

[raphaelbaumann]

22 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

There are no persons. Or ofc "there is" if you are imagining persons to exist, but still, try to ask yourself this: What is a person? Like really, what is it?

 Person= appearance in consciousness , as everything else that appears to be.

 

But how do we still remain here when everything really ends when somebody goes into mahasamadhi? The Imagination kinda remains ? 

Edited September 8, 2020 by raphaelbaumann

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

From mercy comes courage
From frugality comes generosity
From humility comes leadership

Now if one were bold but had no mercy, if one were broad but were not frugal, if one went ahead without humility one would die.
Love vanquishes all attackers. It is impregnable in defense. When heaven wants 
to protect someone, does it send an army? No.. It protects him with Love. 
 

From the Tao te ching

I'd say Frank Yang's expression of the divine is a bit too masculine. The type of HERE I AM, in your face enlightened. Yeah he is not lying or anything, but he will not be the leader that Leo is and can be. 

Yeah I have almost no doubt Frank Yang is not Enlightened

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah I have almost no doubt Frank Yang is not Enlightened

But he is, he just is showing the masculine part of Enlightenment, but there is also the silent, feminine part, the unheard, untouched, unseen and unthought. Which he can never say in words or hear, or touch or smell or think of. The un-manifested reality in which the manifested reality of perception happens.

He is That so he is Enlightened and so is everyone, we are just playing roles on "21st century Earth " level of existence too and some choose their role consciously (the awakened). And everyone has Truth shining through them, our minds rigid beliefs just limit  the Truth,but only until those beliefs are killed.

We just need to practice self inquiry and non attachment to align and Leo gives great insights there. But to get better at anything one needs practice not just to know- hours upon hours. For true mastery.

I am a beginner at most things. To be enlightened sometimes means to have a beginner mindset. I guess what I'm saying is after we unlearn we can learn again, but better. 

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, Dodo said:

But he is, he just is showing the masculine part of Enlightenment, but there is also the silent, feminine part, the unheard, untouched, unseen and unthought. Which he can never say in words or hear, or touch or smell or think of. The un-manifested reality in which the manifested reality of perception happens.

He is That so he is Enlightened and so is everyone, we are just playing roles on "21st century Earth " level of existence too and some choose their role consciously (the awakened). And everyone has Truth shining through them, our minds rigid beliefs just limit  the Truth,but only until those beliefs are killed.

We just need to practice self inquiry and non attachment to align and Leo gives great insights there. But to get better at anything one needs practice not just to know- hours upon hours. For true mastery.

I am a beginner at most things. To be enlightened sometimes means to have a beginner mindset. I guess what I'm saying is after we unlearn we can learn again, but better. 

Ime that's not a good attitude to get Enlightened. Saying that you are already Enlightened. An advaita attitude that has got more with selling books/retreats less than with actual truth

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, raphaelbaumann said:

 Person= appearance in consciousness , as everything else that appears to be.

 

But how do we still remain here when everything really ends when somebody goes into mahasamadhi? The Imagination kinda remains ? 

mahasamadhi is an imaginary concept just like person

[WaveInTheOcean]

"But it's true that in some bodies the Self is more awake than others."

That's not true. 

I'm not saying it's incorrect either

Im just saying this is word games

The Self is naturally awake at all times. If it's from some pov asleep, i.e. you view yourself or Trump or whoever to be asleep, then that's just your point of view. Ultimately speaking everything and everyone are Perfectness, The Self unfolding its infinite imagination to itself to infinity in infinite ways.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

As long as you believe that you yourself or anyone could ever be more or less conscious

It is a fact that you can be more conscious than you currently are.

End of story.

Everyone is in the present moment, but that doesn't mean everyone is equally conscious of it.

I'm sick of arguing against this neo-Advaita over-simplified shit which refuses to acknowledge differences in consciousness.

Just because you are surrendered to the present moment does not mean you are deeply conscious of anything.

What I care about is CONSCIOUSNESS, not surrender and not liberation and not freedom from suffering and not lack of ego and not some permanent condition. But CONSCIOUSNESS!

It makes no difference to me how long it lasts or what its consequences are.

[Michal__]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is a fact that you can be more conscious than you currently are.

End of story.

Everyone is in the present moment, but that doesn't mean everyone is equally conscious of it.

I'm sick of arguing against this neo-Advaita over-simplified shit which refuses to acknowledge differences in consciousness.

Just because you are surrendered to the present moment does not mean you are deeply conscious of anything.

What I care about is CONSCIOUSNESS, not surrender and not liberation and not freedom from suffering and not lack of ego and not some permanent condition. But CONSCIOUSNESS!

It makes no difference to me how long it lasts or what its consequences are.

I think everybody understands that. (Well maybe not everybody, but that Is not the point)

You might have to use a different word than enlightenment though.

Enlightenment in the conventional sense means a permanent shift and there are certain facets that are exactly the same for practicioners of all paths.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Michal__

[Quader]

@WaveInTheOcean

“To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don't grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax, and float." - Alan Watts

To have more than faith is to be conscious of the fact that you can swim across the river before succumbing to the waves. When it is time to float, you should know that too. 

[Into The Void]

@Tim R  The enlightened ego.  Well said.

[Into The Void]

@Leo Gura  What Huxley did not mention was that drugs, specifically the plant hallucinogens, can reliably and repeatedly open the floodgates of the reducing valve of consciousness and expose the individual to the full force of the howling Tao. The way in which we internalize the impact of this experience of the Unspeakable, whether encountered through psychedelics or other means, is to generalize and extrapolate our world view through acts of imagination. Terrence McKenna. 

[VeganAwake]

The knower is the dream character...

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

The knower is the dream character...

That's false you can verify this with analogy with your own dream. Ofcourse its not the dream character that knows your dream at night... It's YOU, the entire dream is made of you for you and through you and you experience it through the lense of a dream character. But the knower of the dream is the ever awakened consciousness. The space in which the dream character and the dream world appears. 

The knower is never the dream character, although while the dream is happening it APPEARS the dream character has a reality of its own and there is a world for that dream character to explore. 

Knowing itself is the knower and that's you

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dodo

[purerogue]

9 minutes ago, Dodo said:

That's false you can verify this with analogy with your own dream. Ofcourse its not the dream character that knows your dream at night... It's YOU, the entire dream is made of you for you and through you and you experience it through the lense of a dream character. But the knower of the dream is the ever awakened consciousness. The space in which the dream character and the dream world appears. 

The knower is never the dream character, although while the dream is happening it APPEARS the dream character has a reality of its own and there is a world for that dream character to explore. 

Knowing itself is the knower and that's you

That reminds me of one of my tests where I was trying not understanding and I got to the point where I could not understand my thoughts, funny experience! 

[Dodo]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is a fact that you can be more conscious than you currently are.

End of story.

Everyone is in the present moment, but that doesn't mean everyone is equally conscious of it.

I'm sick of arguing against this neo-Advaita over-simplified shit which refuses to acknowledge differences in consciousness.

Just because you are surrendered to the present moment does not mean you are deeply conscious of anything.

What I care about is CONSCIOUSNESS, not surrender and not liberation and not freedom from suffering and not lack of ego and not some permanent condition. But CONSCIOUSNESS!

It makes no difference to me how long it lasts or what its consequences are.

Consciousness IS absolute and Formless. It does not expand, its the Ego shrinks and makes an illusion of an expanding consciousness  - Just like the Sun does not rise but the Earth is moving around the Sun in such a way that it creates the illusion that the Sun is rising.

The Sun / Consciousness is immovable and unchanging, it's the Earth / Ego that moves and from the Earth / Ego point of view the Sun/Consciousness moves/expands, but that's just an illusion.  I think this analogy is good.  

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dodo

[Adamq8]

37 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Consciousness IS absolute and Formless. It does not expand, its the Ego shrinks and makes an illusion of an expanding consciousness  - Just like the Sun does not rise but the Earth is moving around the Sun in such a way that it creates the illusion that the Sun is rising.

The Sun / Consciousness is immovable and unchanging, it's the Earth / Ego that moves and from the Earth / Ego point of view the Sun/Consciousness moves/expands, but that's just an illusion.  I think this analogy is good.  

Very nice!

[VeganAwake]

14 hours ago, Dodo said:

That's false you can verify this with analogy with your own dream. Ofcourse its not the dream character that knows your dream at night... It's YOU, the entire dream is made of you for you and through you and you experience it through the lense of a dream character. But the knower of the dream is the ever awakened consciousness. The space in which the dream character and the dream world appears. 

The knower is never the dream character, although while the dream is happening it APPEARS the dream character has a reality of its own and there is a world for that dream character to explore. 

Knowing itself is the knower and that's you

The ever awakened consciousness of the knower is nothing more than the bodily functions and imagination. 

For example what is the knower actually aware of? If you look closely it's just a bundle of concepts ideas thoughts beliefs and perceptions identified with as the knower.

You aren't aware of what's happening at the neighbors house right now; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Fast Stop gas station in Okinawa Japan; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Port Hueneme Transportation yard in California.

The so-called ever awakened consciousness only goes as far as what is directly observed by the human body, learned along the way and imagined....that's it....

I mean it's a cool story and sounds really spiritual, it's just not real unfortunately....

 

 

[Dodo]

12 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The ever awakened consciousness of the knower is nothing more than the bodily functions and imagination. 

For example what is the knower actually aware of? If you look closely it's just a bundle of concepts ideas thoughts beliefs and perceptions identified with as the knower.

You aren't aware of what's happening at the neighbors house right now; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Fast Stop gas station in Okinawa Japan; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Port Hueneme Transportation yard in California.

The so-called ever awakened consciousness only goes as far as what is directly observed by the human body, learned along the way and imagined....that's it....

I mean it's a cool story and sounds really spiritual, it's just not real unfortunately....

 

 

Sounds cool bro, but awareness/ consciousness / knower cannot be bodily functions and imagination simply because bodily functions and imaginations appear within that space also. Is that not correct? I recommend you do some Neti-neti. 

You are confused about the existence of this space because its not an object, but you can know its reality by being it. You cannot see it, you can be it, actually you cannot not be it.  

[Adamq8]

29 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The ever awakened consciousness of the knower is nothing more than the bodily functions and imagination. 

For example what is the knower actually aware of? If you look closely it's just a bundle of concepts ideas thoughts beliefs and perceptions identified with as the knower.

You aren't aware of what's happening at the neighbors house right now; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Fast Stop gas station in Okinawa Japan; you aren't aware of what's happening at the Port Hueneme Transportation yard in California.

The so-called ever awakened consciousness only goes as far as what is directly observed by the human body, learned along the way and imagined....that's it....

I mean it's a cool story and sounds really spiritual, it's just not real unfortunately....

 

 

Conciousness is all there is.