Reference to Leo Gura and Psychedelic States

[Tim R]

5 minutes ago, wavydude said:

Nope there's none. There are enlightened teachers who did psychadelics but they all claim that psychadelics alone can't take you there.

Those who claim the opposite will say "the teacher doesn't know what he's talking about because he isn't REALLY enlightened"

 

Leo said in one of his videos that one of the ways he determines how legit a teacher is, is by looking for humility in the teacher. If he isn't humble, then he's not the real deal. 

PS: this was before he went balls to the wall with 5MeO

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Tim R

[Nahm]

@Kalki Avatar

Either you’re asleep or wokefulness. Woke, there are no more unenlightened or enlightened people. The thought / question no longer makes sense. There wasn’t before either, it just seemed like there was. Sizing up, comparing people, enlightenments, awakenings, teachers, experiences, etc, this is how to stay asleep. It is veiling oneself with the activity of thought about ,and missing the actuality. No thing gets, gives, causes, delivers, or equates to enlightenment. No matter what that thing may be, it truly does not matter. Also, it’s fun to talk about. Like plants. 

[Tim R]

@Nahm I love your answers, they're always so simple, honest and truthful, very inspirational. Thank you!

[lmfao]

What is there to say with these things. Someone is claiming enlightenment. An Instagram model at that. Like come on. 

Absolute, "states vs enlightenment", that topic can be discussed separately. I would reccomend reading jed mckenna, Peter Ralston and Leo for different opinions. Jed Mckenna talks about this very directly, and almost makes it a core point in his book. 

 

Some people call a particular seeing that one's true nature is nothing and immortal, the one and only enlightenment. But isnt there depth to which this is seen? The stability and depth of the realisation. And could there be other facets of consciousness? 

Expose yourself 

Edited September 5, 2020 by lmfao

[Johnny5]

24 minutes ago, wavydude said:

If you think this guy's not enlightened but Leo is

Who said Leo is?

[_Archangel_]

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

Frank Yang has done 5 meo dmt several times in the past and after his enligthenment he says those trips were just awesome states, but not real enligthenment. Another one confirming the bias.

Even though he's very critical of Leo, i think the dude has watched planty of his content in the last year or two.

The way of explaining, and using of metaphors is sometimes very similiar. That's probably why i resonate with his videos.

[Nahm]

@Tim R

Had the same sentiment of yours. ?

[wavydude]

46 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Those who claim the opposite will say "the teacher doesn't know what he's talking about because he isn't REALLY enlightened"

 

Leo said in one of his videos that one of the ways he determines how legit a teacher is, is by looking for humility in the teacher. If he isn't humble, then he's not the real deal. 

PS: this was before he went balls to the wall with 5MeO

 

I've checked out many teachers and from those who beam authenticity and good vibes non done it purely through psychadelics. That's just my impression. 

I don't think Frank isn't humble, he just got aesthetic body that he worked most of his life to build why wouldn't you want to show off that. If Ralston shows he's uprooting techniques he's not being humble ?

Frank shares his whole journey and is authentic with everything he does, he really believe what he says. Leo on the other hand talks a lot about many things but he doesn't really show how he applies that in his life. To be honest we dont really know much about him beside that he's a guy who makes self development videos behind black background. I'm not saying there's something wrong with that but to me Frank's approach is more wholesome.

[Leo Gura]

Of course enlightenment is the present moment.

But also, there's more.

It is not a binary. To not acknowledge degrees of wokeness is amateur stuff. And to boil enlightenment down merely to presence does a disservice to how deep consciousness can go.

You are nowhere near infinitely conscious this present moment. But you could be.

Infininte consciousness always occurs in the present moment, but that does not mean the present moment is infinitely conscious.

And "guru"? Guru just means: one who guides people from darkness to the light. It's become hip to use this term derisively, as if there's something wrong in guru-ing.

The reason I don't claim to be enlightened is because I see now that there are infinite degrees of consciousness such that you could never boil them down to a simple binary on/off, enlightened/unenlightened. The question isn't, is person X enlightened? The real question is, how conscious is person X and what exactly is X conscious of?

[Johnny5]

Actually the present moment is always infinitely conscious.  ? 

Where would we be without some scale of "progress" to mark our "nondual" achievements... The longer the better! 

But enlightenment is nowhere on that scale anyway, so... there's that.

 

Btw. I'm not saying everyone is already enlightenment, or "this is it" or something. Even though, technically, that's correct.

I'm just saying it has nothing to do with levels or states. At best those are byproducts. But alas it doesn't work both ways, i.e. superhuman levels or states don't automatically confer enlightenment. More often than not they don't. Precisely because of all these mistaken and unexamined assumptions about what it supposedly is.

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

Actually the present moment is always infinitely conscious.

No it isn't.

If this were true, everyone would be equally conscious and there would no point in spiritual practice. An ant would be as conscious as a human, and a child as an adult. Which is clearly not the case.

To me, just hearing people claim that they are currently infinitely conscious is laughable. It's clear they are not even 1% conscious as they say that.

If it seems to you like you're infinitely conscious, that's only because you're 1% conscious but have never experienced anything above that, so to you it like that you've already arrived. But in all honestly, you haven't even left the starting gate.

[Enlightenment]

I'm as enlightened as Frank, I mean in the same state

I'm in it ~3,5 years

I asked him in the comments and he confirmed 

Quote

Yes "location 4" according to Martin

He is still in a very excited and euphoric phase after the shift

I disagree with him that you cannot ever have even 0,00001% doubt that you're enlightened. There are literally people who are enlightened and don't even know it, they don't even care. I mean you shouldn't doubt too much because it's pretty obvious, but he is putting it into an absolute statement like you can't X if you're enlightened.

And of this kind of enlightenment is not what Leo means at all.

Quote

Frank Yang has done 5 meo dmt several times in the past

To my knowledge he did it only once 

[Johnny5]

Oh dear...

That's what you get for thinking that absolute = relative...  ? 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Johnny5

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

To my knowledge he did it only once

I have seen so called "enlightened" people take 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, and it simply failed to take effect or they refused to do higher doses because they were too scared.

It's not because they are so woke that it doesn't work on them. They simply have little desire to actually take serious doses repeatedly. They do a little test dose and then stop right there, thinking they understand what 5-MeO-DMT or DMT can offer.

And also, these chemicals do not work on all people. Some people are simply immune. Some people simply have bad bodily reactions with no significant shift in consciousness. So when some enlightened "gym rat" tells you he's done psychedelics, it doesn't mean shit. "I've done psychedelics" is like saying "I've done math" when you have only done 1st grade arithmetic. There are many degrees of "Doing math".

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Leo Gura Eckhart Tolle only described the visuals when talking about his LSD breakthrough. As if his level awareness stayed the same.

[Enlightenment]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I have seen so called "enlightened" people take 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, and it simply failed to take effect or they refused to do higher doses because they were too scared.

He is smoking toad venom here (before his enlightenment)

I took DPT and 5-MeO after my enlightenment and it 100% worked. They just haven't tried high enough dose. Love on 5-MeO is not even comparable with Frank/mine state so it's probably the biggest difference but there are a lot more differences

[Enlightenment]

2 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Lol.. They might not have a framework to put their state of being in. This was the case with Eckhart Tolle, yet he was walking around in pure astonishment.

I was referring to what Daniel Ingram wrote from his experiences. When you ask them technical questions about their experience - it's obvious they are on some level enlightened but they where never talking about it or interested in it much

[Tim R]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If this were true, everyone would be equally conscious and there would no point in spiritual practice. An ant would be as conscious as a human, and a child as an adult. Which is clearly not the case.

@Leo Gura This is the one thing I've seen you say in this forum more than once and I feel I haven't understood it yet, perhaps you might explain it to me.

How could an ant not be as conscious as I am?

I mean, I get it, it doesn't perceive as "much" as I do, but that's not the point, consciousness is not perception in the ordinary sense. 

It is all one consciousness, the great all-pervasive, all-inclusive empty awareness, it is Nothingness, how could there possibly be "a different Nothingness" ? An ant has (is) the same consciousness, the same Nothingness as I am. 

Having realized that you are that awareness (independent of whether you've realized it or not) , what is the point in pursuing "more"? What "more" is there supposed to be? (besides strengthening one's non-dual awareness in everyday life)

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Tim R

[Johnny5]

@Tim R "More" is "higher" states of consciousness. They can definitely be achieved. And they can even be used for enlightenment. But in and of themselves they have nothing to do with enlightenment. It's just another ride in the park.

[Tim R]

2 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

@Tim R "More" is "higher" states of consciousness. They can definitely be achieved. And they can even be used for enlightenment. But in and of themselves they have nothing to do with enlightenment. It's just another ride in the park.

Gotta be honest with you, I don't understand what you mean Could you give a concrete example? You mean things like Siddhis?