Fear is an ilusion

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Almost nobody wants to do it and they need years of meditation to slowly get into fear (reduce ego defenses) and see nothing wrong happens. 

 

I actually think I am ready

They don't want because his (mine too) ego rejects absolutely the idea of death, because ego is a software designed to survive, no more. All of us would like to see the bliss of God and the wonder of the conciousness, but the software is there. Without drugs it's an absolutely titanic work. With drugs....I'm in that, like you, but I don't think it's enlightenment, it's a glimpse of it. But it's million times better than nothing, of course. Good luck with that!

[RedLine]

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

I'm sorry. I don't follow. I am talking about the actual experience of pleasure, not some thoughts about it. When I desire pleasure there will be thoughts, but when I am actually experiencing it, I am it. No thoughts and no anything else. Direct pleasure, direct feeling, without a medium. That feeling is never unpleasant. It is always pleasurable. Sometimes ego can interrupt the pleasure and turn it into hell, but that's something else entirely. The raw sensation of pleasure is pleasant. The ego can either enhance it or make it less or flip it upside down.

If you are experiencing pleasure you can go back to your thoughts whenever you want. If you can´t go back to your thoughts you call it pain.

 

If you are experiencing pain it is hard for you to go to your thoughts because the pain is taking all the limelight, it is forcing you to focus on that.

[Gesundheit]

6 minutes ago, RedLine said:

If you are experiencing pleasure you can go back to your thoughts whenever you want. If you can´t go back to your thoughts you call it pain.

 

If you are experiencing pain it is hard for you to go to your thoughts because the pain is taking all the limelight, it is forcing you to focus on that.

That's not the case for me.

Consider orgasms. When I am having one, I just focus on the raw sensations of ejaculation, and they feel very pleasant. The contractions of the muscles and all that. Absolute pleasure. Nothing to do with ego or thought.

[RedLine]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

They don't want because his (mine too) ego rejects absolutely the idea of death, because ego is a software designed to survive, no more. All of us would like to see the bliss of God and the wonder of the conciousness, but the software is there. Without drugs it's an absolutely titanic work. With drugs....I'm in that, like you, but I don't think it's enlightenment, it's a glimpse of it. But it's million times better than nothing, of course. Good luck with that!

I know what you mean, you are mostly right.

 

I would introduce a nuance: we are not "designed" to survive but to truth (which is the same as infinite). What happens is most people think ego survive is the truth. Basically there are two forces that moves human action: Eros and Tanatos, or Atman and Project Amtman in Wilber´s terminoloy. one goes towards life and the other towards death. Both looks for inifinite. One of them wants to find inifite through ego and the other one killing ego.  

 

 

[RedLine]

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

That's not the case for me.

Consider orgasms. When I am having one, I just focus on the raw sensations of ejaculation, and they feel very pleasant. The contractions of the muscles and all that. Absolute pleasure. Nothing to do with ego or thought.

You can stop having sex and go back to your toughts in any moment. You would´t get pleasure from sex if you did not wanted. You have pleasure because you want to have pleasure. The contrary it is called rape and it is not considered precisely as pleasure.

 

However, you cant´stop pain. That is what defines pain; that you can´t stop it.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, RedLine said:

You can stop having sex and go back to your toughts in any moment. You would´t get pleasure from sex if you did not wanted. You have pleasure because you want to have pleasure. The contrary it is called rape and it is not considered precisely as pleasure.

 

However, you cant´stop pain. That is what defines pain; that you can´t stop it.

You're just mentally masturbating bro. I'm talking about the actual thing, the raw sensations, and you're talking about abstract thoughts.

Babies feel pain. In fact, babies are the ultimate portrayers of how real pain sensations are. You can't force a baby to stop crying if it's feeling pain. Crying is simply the natural response before ego was even born.

[RedLine]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

You're just mentally masturbating bro. I'm talking about the actual thing, the raw sensations, and you're talking about abstract thoughts.

Babies feel pain. In fact, babies are the ultimate portrayers of how real pain sensations are. You can't force a baby to stop crying if it's feeling pain. Crying is simply the natural response before ego was even born.

I am talking very clear here, no mental masturbation at all.

 

How the fuck do you how babies experience crying?

I can just talk about what is pain for me and guess for other people similar to me but I cannot know how the phenomenology of the baby is.

 

[Fran11]

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

Physical pain switches your attention focus from your ego to the pain.  That´s why you dont like it. If you fully accept the pain I think there is not difference between pain and pleasure. The difference is that you belive in fear.

So if I was being skinned alive as part of a cartel torture but I accepted it, would it feel like pleasure? C'mon man.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fran11

[Gesundheit]

@RedLine I suspect you're currently in a high state of consciousness.

[Fran11]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@RedLine I suspect you're currently in a high state of consciousness.

Yeah, even higher than Jesus, who supposedly instead of feeling pleasure in the crux asked why had God abandoned him.

@RedLine you should consider becoming the next mashiah 

(Just kidding, don't be offended please)

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fran11

[RedLine]

15 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

So if I was being skinned alive as part of a cartel torture but I accepted it, would it feel like pleasure? C'mon man.

 

Yes.

But you wouldn't accept it so the thought fear would arise.

[karkaore]

You guys are confusing yourselves. Underestimating too.!

Do you actually know what it is you are calling pain? Do you actually know what it is you are calling pleasure?

What about you stop making distinctions between the two (and in fact everything) and look in there? Just look! Find out what it is.

Feeling a sensation you like and calling it pleasure is not it. The sensation is not the label you put onto it.

[Fran11]

11 minutes ago, karkaore said:

Feeling a sensation you like and calling it pleasure is not it. The sensation is not the label you put onto it.

Try torturing your dog instead of petting him, he doesn't label things so he'll be cool. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fran11

[karkaore]

@Fran11

You seem to stand by your pre-assumed knowing of the matter. Doesn't look like you want to find what's true about it though.

[RedLine]

3 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

Try torturing your dog, he doesn't label things so he'll be cool. 

The dog actually label things.

And he is not awake. Awakening is transrational not prerational.

[Gesundheit]

15 minutes ago, karkaore said:

You guys are confusing yourselves. Underestimating too.!

Do you actually know what it is you are calling pain? Do you actually know what it is you are calling pleasure?

What about you stop making distinctions between the two (and in fact everything) and look in there? Just look! Find out what it is.

Feeling a sensation you like and calling it pleasure is not it. The sensation is not the label you put onto it.

Knowledge is irrelevant here. It is derived from sensation, not the other way around. Sensation is prior to all thoughts.

1 minute ago, RedLine said:

The dog actually label things.

Whoa! That is a bold claim.

24 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

(Just kidding, don't be offended please)

Well, you're a master at that ??

[Fran11]

4 minutes ago, RedLine said:

The dog actually label things.

And he is not awake. Awakening is transrational not prerational.

Those concepts only apply to humans.

Your dog must be very smart if it can label things.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fran11

[RedLine]

1 minute ago, Fran11 said:

Those concepts only apply to humans.

1 minute ago, Gesundheit said:

 

1 minute ago, Fran11 said:

Those concepts only apply to humans.

 

Study The Great Chain of Being and Pre-trans fallacy.

[Fran11]

7 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Study The Great Chain of Being and Pre-trans fallacy.

Again, only applies to humans. 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fran11

[purerogue]

Negative feelings, emotions, thoughts have bad impact on your body , want it or no, can you handle them without really caring , sure.