Fear is an ilusion

[RedLine]

That is what enlighment/hapiness is. Just that. Understand that fear does not exist. 

 

What should you do to get enlightment/be in permanent bliss? Pursue fear.

 

What is fear? Fear of death. All the others fears are derived from that. If you access and observe the final fear, wich is fear of death, you will see that "nothing bad happens", then you finally realize fear does not exist. Everything is good. You can do this right now. You don´t need years of meditation. Just open that door. Jump into the cold water. 

 

One day you realize, everthing was good since the begining, everything was always perfect, how fool you were trying to deal with that problems that didn´t even exist.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[Gesundheit]

I fear pain as well. I don't like it one bit even though it's something else entirely than death.

[RedLine]

Now you could say: But I feel fear right now. How you can say it does not exist?

 

I have an answer for this: Right now you think that your thought of fear relate to a real object which is fear. Once you realise that the object of fear does not exist (because you observe it and nothing wrong happened), that thought of fear does not make sense anymore because it does not point to anything. If you find that a tought is just a tought and don´t point out to any real sustance then the tought automatically desapears.

[Nahm]

@RedLine

Very nice. ?? 

[RedLine]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I fear pain as well. I don't like it one bit even though it's something else entirely than death.

 It is hard to explain but it is actually the same.

[Death_]

@NahmYou are always online. You can use some rest.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Death_

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, RedLine said:

 It is hard to explain but it is actually the same.

Then why did you start a topic? At least offer something.

[Death_]

@RedLine If you jump into the cold water by forcing yourself then your body will try to resist the cold forcefully. I suggest everyone if anyone wants to jump into the cold water try with no force.

 

 

Sorry for grammatical errors.

[RedLine]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Then why did you start a topic? At least offer something.

Ok, I will try:

 

If you are in samsara, for you, to be alive, in opposition to death, means stay in the permanent chat of your head, keep the internal dialog, keep all that ideas and stories alive.

 

So why do we fear pain? Because we fear that the pain takes control of our complete experience and we cannot fully continue with our neurotic chitchat.

 

It is the same reason why we fear death.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[Death_]

6 minutes ago, RedLine said:

If you are in samsara, for you, to be alive, in opposition to death

Hey That's Me.

[Javfly33]

I don't know if it's an illusion but lately I've been discovering that instead of avoiding fear or trying to come up with strategies or "accomplish self growth goals" that make the fear dissappear, it's better to get used to walk towards the fear, accepting the fear, surrendering to the fear, being in the fear, making the habit of making friends with fear.

[Breakingthewall]

Fear is necessary to survive, the animal that we are is programmed to survive and to take care of himself and his relatives in a world that is full of danger. Maybe going deeper than the animal you will find your god nature and there is not fear, but the animal always is going to feel fear. You should be courageous and front the fear, and don't let the fear take the control, but the fear always is going to be there. You could be friend of the fear maybe, but eliminate it? I don't think so...well , maybe those who are enlightened are beyond the fear, but I guess they can feel fear too

Edited September 3, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[Gesundheit]

44 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Ok, I will try:

 

If you are in samsara, for you, to be alive, in opposition to death, means stay in the permanent chat of your head, keep the internal dialog, keep all that ideas and stories alive.

 

So why do we fear pain? Because we fear that the pain takes control of our complete experience and we cannot fully continue with our neurotic chitchat.

 

It is the same reason why we fear death.

I don't know. For me, pain is an unpleasant feeling. With or without thoughts, it is still painful. I imagine if at some point of pain I would kill myself to get rid of it. I wouldn't fear death at that point. The pain would be stronger than the fear.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Nahm]

Fear = “Not me”.

But you are you!

[RedLine]

38 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't know. For me, pain is an unpleasant feeling. With or without thoughts, it is still painful. I imagine if at some point of pain I would kill myself to get rid of it. I wouldn't fear death at that point. The pain would be stronger than the fear.

Physical pain switches your attention focus from your ego to the pain.  That´s why you dont like it. If you fully accept the pain I think there is not difference between pain and pleasure. The difference is that you belive in fear.

 

Ego death is not the same that suicide. People suicide because they think there are a "better ego" after that.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Fear is necessary to survive, the animal that we are is programmed to survive and to take care of himself and his relatives in a world that is full of danger. Maybe going deeper than the animal you will find your god nature and there is not fear, but the animal always is going to feel fear. You should be courageous and front the fear, and don't let the fear take the control, but the fear always is going to be there. You could be friend of the fear maybe, but eliminate it? I don't think so...well , maybe those who are enlightened are beyond the fear, but I guess they can feel fear too

 

That is the point. Enlighment is to overcome survival.

 

It is true though, even when you are in high stages of consciusness, there are always attachments in some degree, othersiwe you would die.

 

That is why "complete enlighment" does not exist. There is always some little attachments (survival). 

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[Gesundheit]

13 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Physical pain switches your attention focus from your ego to the pain.  That´s why you dont like it.

 

Pleasure does that, and I like it. Pleasurable activities give me pleasure regardless of my thoughts.

15 minutes ago, RedLine said:

If you fully accept the pain I think there is not difference between pain and pleasure. The difference is that you belive in fear.

It's easy to say this in theory. And you can even try to force that thought onto the pain, but the pain will still exist and you will still not like it. At least that's how it's been for me so far.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Enlighment is to overcome survival.

 

Yes, could be a good definition of enlightenment. But do you think it's simple ? I think it's absolutely difficult. You said that you don't need years of meditation, only jump in the cold water...how? People had been trying that for thousands of years, and almost no one got it. Nowadays with the psichodelics many people had a glimpse of the infinite. Maybe you meant that

[RedLine]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, could be a good definition of enlightenment. But do you think it's simple ? I think it's absolutely difficult. You said that you don't need years of meditation, only jump in the cold water...how? People had been trying that for thousands of years, and almost no one got it. Nowadays with the psichodelics many people had a glimpse of the infinite. Maybe you meant that

Of course statistically almost nobody do it.

 

What I mean is if you want you can. It is not you cannot do it, it is you dont want to do it.

 

Almost nobody wants to do it and they need years of meditation to slowly get into fear (reduce ego defenses) and see nothing wrong happens. 

 

I actually think I am ready and I could do it. I am looking for a place to yell, cry, vomit and shake. I feel my main fear is led out of control. I had meditaion and pchycodelics experience where I felt I was close to accept fear -death- but I was afraid to start yelling and trembling so neighbors would call police.

 

18 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Pleasure does that, and I like it. Pleasurable activities give me pleasure regardless of my thoughts.

 

When you are having pleasure you can go back to your toughts anytime you want. That is why you like it, your ego "feels safe".

Edited September 3, 2020 by RedLine

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, RedLine said:

When you are having pleasure you can go back to your toughts anytime you want. That is why you like it, your ego "feels safe".

I'm sorry. I don't follow. I am talking about the actual experience of pleasure, not some thoughts about it. When I desire pleasure there will be thoughts, but when I am actually experiencing it, I am it. No thoughts and no anything else. Direct pleasure, direct feeling, without a medium. That feeling is never unpleasant. It is always pleasurable. Sometimes ego can interrupt the pleasure and turn it into hell, but that's something else entirely. The raw sensation of pleasure is pleasant. The ego can either enhance it or make it less or flip it upside down.