Posted September 3, 2020 23 hours ago, Gohabsgo said: As I get deeper on my journey I discovered the neutral nature of the universe and how it truly lacks meaning. Except when another human is harming another. My brain sees this as objectively evil/wrong and sometimes I can see that it is in fact me giving it that meaning. My brain is really muddled and I feel stuck From a universal standpoint nothing can be right or wrong because morality is a construct perceived merely by the human mind & the human mind is very limited in its ability to accurately perceive. Nothing can be 'objectively' wrong because not everyone thinks the same way or has the same moral constructs due to ethical relativism. What is right in Western culture looks very wrong to people from other cultures & vice versa. Both of those cultures are very sure that their construct of morality is the objectively 'correct' or 'right' one. Which culture's moral construct do we believe in? Most likely the one we grew up in. I don't like to think of actions in terms of whether they are 'right' or 'wrong' I like to think of them in terms of whether they are conducive to heightening love & consciousness among humanity. If the ultimate goal is consciousness & love, obviously rape is counterproductive to that goal & a highly conscious person would not rape or harm somebody because in doing so they are raping or harming themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 Right and wrong, evil and bad is all made up by our minds. Love life and your Health, INFJ Visionary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 From an absolute standpoint, there is no evil. All is one. But from an absolute standpoint, or in the midst of a DMT trip, you're not going to rape anyone. From a relative standpoint, there is definitely evil; I am positive, no one who has replied in this thread would be okay with being raped. I would certainly be traumatized, and more divided within myself, than I am today. However, I just landed into duality world as I discuss absolute vs relative perspective. It is certainly a confusing and somewhat circular discussion because to even discuss good and evil, you must step down from the absolute standpoint. Nonetheless, when I am balanced, Yin-Yang, as in, I know myself as God, experiencing a person/ego. Hurting others IS wrong because I am able to see myself as others and I have Unity as my foundation. This has been my truth. -- I am curious as to how some of you are at peace with this idea that evil does not exist totally. Are you not at least somewhat concerned of being raped from a relative perspective? and If you are, why are do we deny the truth of that? To be absolute, is also to be relative, and vice versa. So what exactly is stopping Good and Evil from being true when it is contained within the absolute standpoint? These ideas have been on my mind and recently did an LSD trip where I seriously contemplated this. The above narrative has been my conclusion. @Carl-Richard My intention was not to come off hostile at all. This topic has been on my mind for a couple of years now and I am still integrating it at a human level. 1 Corinthians 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 Facts are objective. Just list facts, stop thinking in right or wrong. Fact, rape is harmful. Do you need to think beyond that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Psychic crocodile said: Facts are objective. Just list facts, stop thinking in right or wrong. Fact, rape is harmful. Do you need to think beyond that? How is it decided what a fact is? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @SgtPepper what does evil mean to you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Consept facts arent debatable. It is not debatable that its harmful. That's a complete fact and the thought process could end there and that's all the info you need. If you want to continue on the thought processes you will just be pointlessly thinking. In a language that is limited and based on binaries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 All "evil" is just selfishness and ignorance, try to see how you are (or have been) selfish and ignorant and you might get a glimpse of compassion for who also are like that. The thing is, when you catalogue something as "evil" or "wrong" you automatically prejudge it/deny it/reject it, not being open to understanding their perspective nor being able to feel compassion and love for them. And that's just another level of selfishness and ignorance. "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Connect to Create ☼♡ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SgtPepper said: Are you not at least somewhat concerned of being raped from a relative perspective? and If you are, why are do we deny the truth of that? You should be concerned and it shouldn't be denied. Acknowledging the absolute does not negate the relative. They're just different perspectives. Edited September 3, 2020 by Carl-Richard Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Psychic crocodile said: @Consept facts arent debatable. It is not debatable that its harmful. That's a complete fact and the thought process could end there and that's all the info you need. If you want to continue on the thought processes you will just be pointlessly thinking. In a language that is limited and based on binaries. Facts can be debatable, it would depend on your perspective and level of consciousness. For example I would say capital punishment is wrong, but many who believe in Sharia law would say its justified. Similarly we'd also slavery in the past was wrong but that is from our perspective in the present, those in the future, in 100 years or so may say things we do now are barbaric like eating animals for example. So objectivity would be nearly impossible to prove that it even exists, however we can look at rape from our relative perspective and probably all agree that it shouldnt be allowed, but from a lower consciousness they may not see it like that, so in which case how could it be objective? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Carl-Richard @Consept They call it objective because there's a usefulness in gathering consensus among people under objectivity. Yet it's also true that objectivity is relative and dependent on things with consciousness and thinking to exist. Also, the sufferings and harms done to each other in history up to now is a learning process and necessary for a basis of compassion and love, because without strong contrasts it's not that easy to develop morality. When I say morality I mean a 'moral compass', an intuitive right and wrong, not ethicality, the lists of rules by culture themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Psychic crocodile said: facts arent debatable Oh boy what a dangerous place to be stuck in. Watch out. hrhrhtewgfegege Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: They call it objective because there's a usefulness in gathering consensus among people under objectivity. A consensus amongst people is not the same as objectivity, if the nazis had won the war, the world would've come to a consensus that killing Jews is fine, or during trans Atlantic slavery, the world did come to a consensus that slavery and torture was fine. Consensus can be useful as well but you can't call it objective, if anything it's a collective subjective. If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Consept you are over thinking it. Which makes you under think it unfortunately. Your points are irrelevant, they arent facts. Not objectively, not subjectively, not from any perspective. Just because a large collective thinks in right or wrong, doesnt make it fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) @Roy lol then you do not know what fact is. Theres more to elaborate here, but it would take more thought and typing than I can do currently to make it succinct and not messy with too many holes to contradict. Edited September 3, 2020 by Psychic crocodile Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Psychic crocodile said: @Consept you are over thinking it. Which makes you under think it unfortunately. Your points are irrelevant, they arent facts. Not objectively, not subjectively, not from any perspective. Just because a large collective thinks in right or wrong, doesnt make it fact. Can you define a fact and who decides what are undebatable facts? Also what happens when two people say something is a fact but they contradict each other? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Consept facts are not debatable. Black people were slaves in america, fact. Facts literally are not debatable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Psychic crocodile Throughout history people have defended or slaughtered others in the name of what they were convinced were "facts". Only to be mocked centuries later as being ignorant or insane as a new set of "facts" moved in to take their place. Beware of having such strong certainties of anything, you'll find that the results might not be desirable no matter how good the intentions seemed. You'll be very surprised how much more relativity plays into things than you currently think. hrhrhtewgfegege Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 @Consept 53 minutes ago, Consept said: A consensus amongst people is not the same as objectivity, if the nazis had won the war, the world would've come to a consensus that killing Jews is fine, or during trans Atlantic slavery, the world did come to a consensus that slavery and torture was fine. Consensus can be useful as well but you can't call it objective, if anything it's a collective subjective. A consensus is an agreement made by different groups in a society, like social contract found in the justice system, religious texts and other types of ethical codes of conduct. Objectivity is a fact or data that is extremely consistent, measurable, quantifiable, has undergone layers of proofs, like the fact that there's a sun, or rain is water, or the snow is white. Where consensus and objectivity meets is in the gathering of continuous data of human interactions between each other that surviving humans find benefit in keeping and discarding some human behaviors, which triggers designing ethical codes of conduct throughout history in order to continue this filtering process. I'm sorry, the world or people? Because the world's too big, beyond human concerns and is impartial. You're also speaking for a speculative consensus for groups in deciding whether or not that killing jews is acceptable, and whether or not slavery and torture are acceptable. To really know what is or isn't acceptable, means that prior to deciding right from wrong is needed a history of human interactions that involved actions (killing, slavery and torture) done in direct experience by the doer and receivers, and witnessed by other people, recorded as second hand knowledge, and taught in some way by the survivors of the doers/receivers/people that lacked direct experience of such events. In this way, we decrease selfishness over time, or another way is selfishness can evolve away from less cruder forms of actions, and objectivity, whether social or the universe like gravity, is enforced by consistent occurrences. In this way, both of us benefit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) @Danioover9000 @Psychic crocodile Can facts change through time? Or have facts changed through time, advancing tech etc? Edited September 3, 2020 by Consept If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
