Posted September 2, 2020 Is objectivity something that even exists or if it does would we be able to know it? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, Consept said: Is objectivity something that even exists or if it does would we be able to know it? Absolute Truth. Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 I was commenting on your original statement of: 6 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said: If being raped hurts, the universe dont want this, otherwise it would feel so good! I am looking at it from multiple perspectives. Yes from the perspective of someone being raped and her family, friends - rape doesn't feel good. Yet from the perspective of a rapist, it may feel good. Thus, it's not so simple as though if the universe doesn't want it, it wouldn't feel good. By that logic, the universe would make it feel bad for all rapists such that they wouldn't do it. 1 hour ago, Rajneeshpuram said: Inflicting pain only give pleasure to damaged minds, there's a psychopathy behind. I'm talking about psychologically functional beings with the ability to feel empathy. I agree that empathy is important and we can have empathy for both the victim and rapist. It's much easier for people to have empathy for the victim and demonize the rapist as being damaged, immoral etc. Yet we can have empathy for both the victim and rapist. Quite often, those that were abused were abused themselves. Many rapists were abused and molested as children. They too underwent trauma and are now acting out their trauma. Have we provided enough resources and support for such individuals? Or once they become adults, do we marginalize and stigmatize as them being damaged misfits? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, SgtPepper said: Why do you say the universe wants it? I am more inclined to see that the ego wants it.' Someone who is separate from Truth will resort to kill, steal, rape, and lie to survive/have their needs met. I was speaking in his terms. I wouldn't use that language normally. The universe doesn't really "want" anything. It just is what it is, and that is Truth. 36 minutes ago, SgtPepper said: Doing a deadlift is nothing like being raped against your will. Man, some people have a really hard time with analogies on this forum. No, of course not, they're completely different. I was talking about pain 38 minutes ago, SgtPepper said: A psychopath's perspective is like that because he is deeply divided in himself. Falsehood is his foundation. True. Falsehood is also relative. Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 It is objectively relative. And it is relatively wrong according to the perspective of higher truth. So it's basically objectively wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 @Carl-Richard 1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said: The universe definitely wants it. It's just you who doesn't want it lol. Depends on the context. The pain I experience from doing a deadlift is almost blissful. Call me a sadomasochist. In the psychopath's perspective, we're the ones with the damaged minds that we allow other people to take advantage of us. Nice description of yourself there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 @Rajneeshpuram 2 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said: Inflicting pain only give pleasure to damaged minds, there's a psychopathy behind. I'm talking about psychologycally functional beings with the hability to feel empathy. Yes, it definitely does accumulate energies that not only damages the minds, but carries over to the next life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: @Carl-Richard Nice description of yourself there. Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 @SgtPepper 1 hour ago, SgtPepper said: Why do you say the universe wants it? I am more inclined to see that the ego wants it. Someone who is separate from Truth will resort to kill, steal, rape, and lie to survive/have their needs met. Doing a deadlift is nothing like being raped against your will. A psychopath's perspective is like that because he is deeply divided in himself. Falsehood is his foundation. Okay, but let's consider these possibilities: 'Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water' it's an innocent sounding quote at first, but notice when we reframe the metaphor of the quote 'Before enlightenment, chop heads and carry women. After enlightenment, chop heads and carry women.'. Questions: Is the ego truly dead from enlightenment? What's really stopping a god realized person from doing his/her normal routine? Or from intensifying the usual ignorance of the karma? Spiritual masters are not immune to this problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 @Consept 1 hour ago, Consept said: Is objectivity something that even exists or if it does would we be able to know it? Objectivity might exist from both utilitarian purposes between people and for society to function from consensuses agreed upon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 Objectivity doesn't exist, it is always created. Of course it's always being created with a completely all consuming bias. Imagine being the rapist for a second, from their POV it's great! They get exactly what they want, nothing wrong with it from their perspective. Now you're upset and you're asking the universe to pick sides between the victim and the perpetrator about which perspective is "correct" and "objective", as if the universe is a person that can make distinctions. How absurd. hrhrhtewgfegege Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: @Consept Objectivity might exist from both utilitarian purposes between people and for society to function from consensuses agreed upon. That's a definition of relative though If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 @Roy Just now, Roy said: Objectivity doesn't exist, it is always created. Of course it's always being created with a completely all consuming bias. Imagine being the rapist for a second, from their POV it's great! They get exactly what they want, nothing wrong with it from their perspective. Now you're upset and you're asking the universe to pick sides between the victim and the perpetrator about which perspective is "correct" and "objective", as if the universe is a person that can make distinctions. How absurd. It's absurd because we're trying to play God and trying to understand multiple perspectives whilst being imprisoned in this body we're in. How is it possible to go from knowing another's perspective without destroying your own? The more you try to know another, the more you destroy yourself, because there's only 1 perspective with every life experience lived and remembered, and other perspectives are imaginations no matter how closely otherness interconnects to your perspective, so the cost of more understanding of otherness is you lose yourself more. So we must at some point become God as that thing , but the viscous catch 22 is we can't be fully God whilst we're still imprisoned here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said: It is objectively relative. And it is relatively wrong according to the perspective of higher truth. So it's basically objectively wrong. I dont think you can say it's basically objectively wrong. We can't even say what the perspective of higher truth is. For example rape might be a legit mating strategy for some species of animals or even for us thousands of years ago, I don't think a higher perspective is looking at these incidents thinking 'this is so wrong'. In modern day we can look at it and say its wrong as we know the victim is suffering and we can agree that in a civilised society that kind of thing is not going to work, but I don't think you can say its objectively wrong, mainly because who are we to say that and also because how can anything be purely objective without the subjective human lens that we all see through? If you liked whatever i said in this post, check out my youtube channel for actual me talking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said: Speak for yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: Speak for yourself. What's wrong? Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: How is it possible to go from knowing another's perspective without destroying your own? The more you try to know another, the more you destroy yourself That is the cost of selflessness. hrhrhtewgfegege Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: How is it possible to go from knowing another's perspective without destroying your own? Perspective jumping! Hold ideas loosely, observe, get curious and imagine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: How is it possible to go from knowing another's perspective without destroying your own? Shouldn't be too hard when you only get your perspective from other people anyway Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) “Objective” is only in your mind, only perspectives exist. Different perspectives of the One. Edited September 3, 2020 by Klaudia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
