Leo's view on GOTHS

[AtheisticNonduality]

He stated in his latest video, goths, punks, emos, etc. are conformist and conventional when it comes to mental structure, despite anti-establishment content. Be careful here. Why wouldn't you say the same thing about pluralistic hippies that all do the same things?  Yeah, there is room for silly clique behavior and "alternative" forms of conformity with goths when it comes to low-level consciousness goths, although the actual cultural innovators themselves certainly don't. This is like saying all spiritual/enlightenment teachers are actually materialistic entrepreneurial swindlers in structure despite the content. Don't take SOUTH PARK too seriously.

Edited September 1, 2020 by AtheisticNonduality

[Danioover9000]

   This should be interesting...

[Consept]

@AtheisticNonduality are you a goth? 

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Consept No.

[Artsu]

Most of most groups are probably conformist/conventional.

[Ya know]

You would say the same thing about hippies, they aren't exempt from fulfilling a stereotype and ''conforming'' to the status quo inherent in their own bubble. Evident in the way they dress, communicate, interact, eat, work (or lack thereof).

I'm assuming your argument is that the pioneers aren't conformist - which is true. The followers aren't though. 

[Rilles]

Were all conformist. Do you walk around naked in public? Didnt think so. 

[Leo Gura]

I was talking about teens in high school.

[Soulbass]

[Hello from Russia]

Did anyone meet any goths recently? It seems like this shit disappeared in 2000s

Edited September 2, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Sempiternity]

There is a healthy goth community in Seattle where I live. As well as Portland. Major scene in Vancouver B.C. It's a popular scene, as is rave culture, burner culture, steampunk, cosplay, medieval, and so on. Most people I know dabble in most all of these scenes. People just like to dress to the 9s, look sexy and go out dancing and have fun with friends. 

[Leo Gura]

I don't think I've ever seen a Goth over 25 years old. It's like some fad that teens go through as they try to sort out their identity issues.

[Lyubov]

I remember those big ol goofy pants lol 

[Carl-Richard]

On 2.9.2020 at 1:30 AM, AtheisticNonduality said:

He stated in his latest video, goths, punks, emos, etc. are conformist and conventional when it comes to mental structure, despite anti-establishment content.

What is the problem with that distinction?

[AtheisticNonduality]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is the problem with that distinction?

Be careful here.

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't think I've ever seen a Goth over 25 years old. It's like some fad that teens go through as they try to sort out their identity issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Smith_(singer)

[Carl-Richard]

48 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Be careful here.

What do you mean?

[AtheisticNonduality]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

What do you mean?

Why wouldn't you say the same thing about pluralistic hippies that all do the same things?  Yeah, there is room for silly clique behavior and "alternative" forms of conformity with goths when it comes to low-level consciousness goths, although the actual cultural innovators themselves certainly don't. This is like saying all spiritual/enlightenment teachers are actually materialistic entrepreneurial swindlers in structure despite the content. Don't take SOUTH PARK too seriously.

[Carl-Richard]

35 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Why wouldn't you say the same thing about pluralistic hippies that all do the same things?

Sure, atleast in some sense, many hippies are also conformist and conventional when it comes to mental structure, despite anti-establishment content. However, there are certainly different degrees of this, and also, young people are more susceptible to it.

You should also take into account the SD lens to this matter. Hippies are stage green, and that stage is called the "post-conventional" stage for a reason. You're much more likely to find diversity of behaviour, thought and expression, odd pecularities and idiosyncrasies there compared to a group from a lower stage.

Despite there being commonalities within the group, their mental structure is relatively more fluid compared to other groups. Concepts like being a free spirit, freethinker, free love are much more open to interpretation than say the puritanian "fuck the establishment" mentality of punk rock.

All in all, structure vs content is an important distinction, but so is content vs content.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Preety_India]

 

I'm into Goth. I have a black gown and veil and I do Goth makeup and cosplay sometimes. 

I don't see any problem with it 

I take it as an art form and I like it a lot. The dark Hues are very appealing and romantic to me. 

It is just an alternative sub culture like any other. Like some people like to do graffiti. 

Some people are into alternative stuff like bikers, metalheads and juggalos. 

There are so many. Don't see any problem. In fact see I see it as a great variety of interesting themes and facets 

 

 

[Hello from Russia]

On 9/4/2020 at 10:12 AM, Leo Gura said:

I don't think I've ever seen a Goth over 25 years old. It's like some fad that teens go through as they try to sort out their identity issues.

I think I've seen some emo like 5 years ago. Emos could still exist

I also feel like there s been some kind of an evolution happening and it might be that these people evolved into nowaday's incels, who knows

Edited September 5, 2020 by Hello from Russia