Don't underestimate the importance of Life Conditions when talking about SD

[Apparition of Jack]

Its kinda easy to just think of the world in terms of "Blue religionists", "Orange materialists", "Green egalitarians" etc but the reality is these worldviews and stages of development, whilst in part dependent on each individual's level of development, are also extremely tied to the Life Conditions (LCs) of the society people are in. These are things like average income, housing quality, social norms, collective trauma (or collective wellbeing), access to water/food/information/etc., healthcare quality, and so on. The worse off your life conditions, the lower level of development you and the people around you are going to be, because you're going to need to put more of your energy into meeting Maslow's bottom needs than focusing on the higher needs that allow for higher stages to develop.

For those of us living in relatively comfortable lifestyles in the West, we have to understand that we basically live in a different reality to people in the developing world or poorer parts of our own countries. If you have access to food, electricity, reasonable education, government support, working medical services, police that won't demand bribes, and governments you can call out, then you're already living in a safer environment than 95% of humanity. It's so easy to get caught up in stage Orange/Green/Yellow politicking when you have all these needs met and aren't aware that most other people don't.

The vast majority of humanity is at stage Blue. The vast majority of humanity are poor workers with small incomes, bad employment, bad healthcare, unreliable electricity, corrupt crime systems, and so on. I cannot stress this enough. This is the reality of living on planet Earth in the year 2020. Even in Western countries there's still a lot of people in poverty.

If you're a progressive and interested in moving the world up to Green, then keep this in mind often. If you have good LCs, then be grateful for what you have, and understand that most people don't have what you have. And if you're upset at some unhealthy Red/Blue/Orange ideology being promoted, then remember this is usually coming from someone in a worse material situation than you.

Just something I thought of sharing.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, yes, yes. Of course.

Go visit Iraq or Liberia. See how life works there. Your entire worldview will be challenged. You will have an existential and moral crisis.

[DecemberFlower]

Very true indeed. Yet most people find it hard to appreciate good life conditions if they werent once in much worse situation. Gratefulness must be learned through loss for many. 

[Moon]

Yess, good post!

We are privileged, so so privileged in the west.

reminded me of this video:

cringe ffs

[blankisomeone]

11 minutes ago, Moon said:

Yess, good post!

We are privileged, so so privileged in the west.

reminded me of this video:

cringe ffs

omg cringe lol

[soos_mite_ah]

Yeah it's going to be much harder to develop in an environment that isn't conducive to actualizing if you live in a place where because is a lack of governmental and social infrastructure that keeps everyone in survival mode  

The thing that I like about spiral dynamics is that it brings that social/ psychological infrastructure to light and help map it out. So rather than looking at a blue person in a developing country and writing them off as evil for being sexist, racist, and homophobic, you realize that it's a part of a individual as well as a collective developmental stage that people can grow out of and that is due to the environment rather than some inherent devilry. 

[Artsu]

Blue is about belonging needs. Its the community focus of religion that makes it blue.

A good approach to religion can take you right up the spiral.

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Moon said:

Yess, good post!

We are privileged, so so privileged in the west.

reminded me of this video:

cringe ffs

I saw one of the comments that said "what in the whiteness and colonialism happening here" Literally my thoughts lmaoooooo 

also thought of this 

[Moon]

29 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I saw one of the comments that said "what in the whiteness and colonialism happening here" Literally my thoughts lmaoooooo 

also thought of this 

Mad how this meme reflects the reality of weak forms of stage green: "white veganism", "white feminism" etc. I guess if you're exposed to animals more than POC growing up, this is the consequence. 

There was another video I saw of a distraught homeless man being robbed of his dog by animal activists because he was "abusing" it (no evidence of this). They cared more about the dog than the poor guy not only being homeless but that they were taking away his only companion 

 

[soos_mite_ah]

1 minute ago, Moon said:

Mad how this meme reflects the reality of weak forms of stage green: "white veganism", "white feminism" etc

There was another video I saw of a distraught homeless man being robbed of his dog by animal activists because he was "abusing" it (no evidence of this). They cared more about the dog than the poor guy not only being homeless but that they were taking away his only companion 

Ahh well, I guess if you're exposed to animals more than POC growing up, there are consequences. 

I think it also shows what happens when you don't fully integrate into a stage and therefore still have aspects from the lower stages that you haven't worked through. 

There was this really interesting study that I read about a year ago. With the homeless man and his dog example, studies have actually shown that homeless people tend to take really good care of their dogs. Unlike house pets, the dogs get a lot of exercise and time to mess around outside. As far as food goes, the dogs are typically well fed because the homeless person caring for the dog sees the dog as a part of him/her self, as a way of holding on to life and having a form of connection.  The reason why people feel sorry for the dog and not the person is because the dog is seen as more helpless in the situation whereas the person is seen as someone who had a choice and made the wrong ones. It has a lot to do with how people see the poor and the homeless as bad people who made bad choices rather than people who had terrible life circumstances due to structural issues. There is a lot of orange in this phenomenon when it comes to seeing people who become victim to capitalism as unworthy of survival.  

[Artsu]

15 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I think it also shows what happens when you don't fully integrate into a stage and therefore still have aspects from the lower stages that you haven't worked through. 

There was this really interesting study that I read about a year ago. With the homeless man and his dog example, studies have actually shown that homeless people tend to take really good care of their dogs. Unlike house pets, the dogs get a lot of exercise and time to mess around outside. As far as food goes, the dogs are typically well fed because the homeless person caring for the dog sees the dog as a part of him/her self, as a way of holding on to life and having a form of connection.  The reason why people feel sorry for the dog and not the person is because the dog is seen as more helpless in the situation whereas the person is seen as someone who had a choice and made the wrong ones. It has a lot to do with how people see the poor and the homeless as bad people who made bad choices rather than people who had terrible life circumstances due to structural issues. There is a lot of orange in this phenomenon when it comes to seeing people who become victim to capitalism as unworthy of survival.  

"Birds have nests, and foxes have dens, but the son of man has no where to lay his head."

[TrustTheProcess]

It is very important to keep in mind that people are the way they are as a result of their environment. 

[Artsu]

Just now, louhad said:

It is very important to keep in mind that people are the way they are as a result of their environment. 

Partly.

[Moon]

38 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I think it also shows what happens when you don't fully integrate into a stage and therefore still have aspects from the lower stages that you haven't worked through. 

There was this really interesting study that I read about a year ago. With the homeless man and his dog example, studies have actually shown that homeless people tend to take really good care of their dogs. Unlike house pets, the dogs get a lot of exercise and time to mess around outside. As far as food goes, the dogs are typically well fed because the homeless person caring for the dog sees the dog as a part of him/her self, as a way of holding on to life and having a form of connection. 

Interesting! This makes a lot of sense. There was a homeless guy who was often outside a shop I'd visit in my uni city, we'd speak sometimes and he'd ask for treats for his dog too. He was in a wheelchair and said he knew of a shelter where he could stay, but he didn't go because they wouldn't let him bring his dog. He was willing to stay out in the cold without shelter to avoid losing his dog! :'( 

 

38 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

The reason why people feel sorry for the dog and not the person is because the dog is seen as more helpless in the situation whereas the person is seen as someone who had a choice and made the wrong ones. It has a lot to do with how people see the poor and the homeless as bad people who made bad choices rather than people who had terrible life circumstances due to structural issues. There is a lot of orange in this phenomenon when it comes to seeing people who become victim to capitalism as unworthy of survival.  

Yess! Stage orange is often more focused on being the "winner" and avoiding the "losers" of society to get ahead, rather than focusing on the losers' issues. There is a huge pressure by society to *succeed* so people are preoccupied on their own lives than to reflect on the structures in place.