Metaphysics of Loneliness

[JosephKnecht]

I have been trying to figure out the reasons why people who attempt to actualize must spend some time in isolation.

Some people go for the mountains in India and meditate for 20 years, while others isolate themselves from the world and attempt to create a better world inside their own mind rather than participate in the real world. 

My current conclusion is that daily interaction with others creates our experienced reality. When we share reality with others who are "less conscious" than us, they bring us down to their level of understanding since that is the only way we can come to a common understanding. "Less conscious" person can't understand a more conscious one, so it is always the more conscious one that has to be brought down to the level of the less conscious one. In these interactions, it is always the more conscious person that is at a loss since he fails to develop further.

Therefore, if one becomes highly conscious, he/she becomes aware of this insight and decides to minimize his interactions with the general public to the extent this is possible. He might join a cult/ashram or seek other people who are at his level of consciousness. If he is unable to find others, the only other suitable option is isolation. 

I believe this to be a metaphysical truth, and the only way to prevent isolation/loneliness is to raise the general consciousness of the whole population. 

Your thoughts? 

[Thought Art]

@JosephKnecht Hmm, perhaps being conscious is being able to understand and be yourself in those situations too.

[JosephKnecht]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@JosephKnecht Hmm, perhaps being conscious is being able to understand and be yourself in those situations too.

Perhaps... but you must respond to your immediate environment. 

I visited another country recently and was in contact with people who have not yet realized their survival needs.

If you spend an extended period of time with these "types of people", there is a high probability that you will regress to their understanding of reality.

There is lots of subconscious imprinting happening and if you are not fully aware of it all, you will regress. 

I am curious to hear from others who perhaps have been in isolation for extended periods of time. What has been your experience? 

[Mindflow]

What you say rings true to me.

Most of my greatest breakthroughs have been by myself a majority of the time. To have a human experience can be a lonely one. 

[Tim R]

7 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

When we share reality with others who are "less conscious" than us, they bring us down to their level of understanding

7 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Therefore, if one becomes highly conscious, he/she becomes aware of this insight and decides to minimize his interactions with the general public to the extent this is possible.

 

I disagree very much.

It's not the people you interact with, who will affect your consciousness. 

It always boils down to YOU.

It's always and everywhere up to you how mindful/conscious your modus operandi is. It has nothing whatsoever to do with them. If they decide to crack a beer, it's up to you wether you'll join them or not. If they talk about "unconscious" things, it's up to you, wether you engage or not. 

Your consciousness is shaped by your actions and reactions. Having become conscious of certain things, you won't again become unconscious of them, unless YOU decide to let your consciousness become murky and dull. And you don't even have to be around anyone to accomplish that.

So, you don't lose your attained state of consciousness because of other people. You lose it because of yourself.

And if you think that no one understands you because you're at such a high level of consciousness, it is this narcissism which prevents you from connecting to people, because if you are actually at such a high level of consciousness, you'd be able to connect with almost every person AND you wouldn't be lonely anymore.

Do not blame the cause of your loneliness on other people, it's not their fault. If you think they drag you down, then that's a cheap excuse for you not being able to properly connect with them. You can be a perfectly enlightened person and drink beer with a bunch of friends who don't even know about spirituality, and nothing would be sacrificed. 

They didn't drag you anywhere, you decided to go with them. 

Yes, to self-actualize it is very helpful to be utterly alone (which is not necessarily the same as being lonely!), but that is once again: your decision. 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Tim R

[Leo Gura]

The metaphysics of loneliness is that you are ONE.

One is the loneliest number... something, something...

If what you seek is Ultimate Truth, then naturally you will end up alone. You will be so alone you will become together and whole, completing one revolution in the mind of God.

[Nobody_Here]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The metaphysics of loneliness is that you are ONE.

One is the loneliest number... something, something...

If what you seek is Ultimate Truth, then naturally you will end up alone. You will be so alone you will become together and whole, completing one revolution in the mind of God.

This what I am going through right now. Of course, the pandemic isn’t helping all that much. That said, I think I have evolved a lot since I entered COVID-19 isolation.

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

 

I disagree very much.

It's not the people you interact with, who will affect your consciousness. 

It always boils down to YOU.

It's always and everywhere up to you how mindful/conscious your modus operandi is. It has nothing whatsoever to do with them. If they decide to crack a beer, it's up to you wether you'll join them or not. If they talk about "unconscious" things, it's up to you, wether you engage or not. 

Your consciousness is shaped by your actions and reactions. Having become conscious of certain things, you won't again become unconscious of them, unless YOU decide to let your consciousness become murky and dull. And you don't even have to be around anyone to accomplish that.

So, you don't lose your attained state of consciousness because of other people. You lose it because of yourself.

And if you think that no one understands you because you're at such a high level of consciousness, it is this narcissism which prevents you from connecting to people, because if you are actually at such a high level of consciousness, you'd be able to connect with almost every person AND you wouldn't be lonely anymore.

Do not blame the cause of your loneliness on other people, it's not their fault. If you think they drag you down, then that's a cheap excuse for you not being able to properly connect with them. You can be a perfectly enlightened person and drink beer with a bunch of friends who don't even know about spirituality, and nothing would be sacrificed. 

They didn't drag you anywhere, you decided to go with them. 

Yes, to self-actualize it is very helpful to be utterly alone (which is not necessarily the same as being lonely!), but that is once again: your decision. 

 

I agree to an extent. They say you’re the average of the 5 people you hang around most, but I’m the only one into spirituality, personal growth, spiral dynamics and metaphysics. My interests are kind of isolating, but it’s my choice.

[Jodistrict]

The opposite of loneliness is connection.  Bill Plotkin talks about sacred speech and speaking  from the heart.  He recommends to only have conversations from the heart to connect with people and avoid small talk.  If someone isn’t interested and doesn’t respond, you can move on.

“We speak from the heart and address what truly matters — 
our feelings,
imagery, 
dreams, 
life purpose, 
our relationships, soul stories, 
our discoveries of how we project aspects of self onto others or learn to withdraw those projections,
 and our meetings with remarkable humans, animals, plants, and places.”

Bill Plotkin. Soulcraft: Crossing Into the Mysteries of Nature and Psyche 

[Leo Gura]

Sometimes the most connected you'll feel is when you're alone.

[JayG84]

@JosephKnecht

I took the last year off of work to figure my life out. I spent it isolated, reading, contemplating, working on passions, etc. I feel like I've grown so much. 2 weeks ago I went back to work with stage blue/orange people and I feel more alone than I did when I was isolated. It's like I'm watching chimps in the zoo. I don't know if I feel more connected or disconnected. Like on one hand I understand people so much more. I can feel their energy and see they're motives behind everything they do. But on the other hand I find it very hard to participate in it without feeling inauthentic, so I sort of just "study it". I really miss being isolated now, it's where I feel my most authentic, but to be a sailor, you must leave the port I guess.

Edited August 31, 2020 by JayG84

[mandyjw]

The belief that you are susceptible to being dragged down in a level of consciousness of the others, or susceptible to being wrapped up in their stories, is a misunderstanding. Sometimes time alone shows this belief to be false, sometimes spending time with people does. Usually it's a mix between the two and the honest intent to love fully. 

Metaphysically, a drug dealer is more conscious than my dog, but my dog makes me feel much more conscious. Is that the blame of metaphysics or my own judgmental thoughts and beliefs? We tend to be most triggered by people who are closest to us in terms of development. Someone who is the first generation to pull themselves out of welfare and go get a great job is triggered by their family and more likely to strongly embrace conservative political views, etc. Distancing our selves can be an attempt to better ourselves, to find our true path in clarity OR to identify. It's important to look closely at your heart and thoughts to know which is which. 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by mandyjw

[JosephKnecht]

17 hours ago, Tim R said:

If they talk about "unconscious" things, it's up to you, wether you engage or not. 

If your environment is very unconscious, then you will choose not to engage most of the time. This makes you isolated. 

 

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The metaphysics of loneliness is that you are ONE.

God is the loneliest ONE. But when we strive toward His Realization, we too become lonely as a test of endurance. Can you endure being infinitely alone? 

[JosephKnecht]

5 hours ago, JayG84 said:

@JosephKnecht

I took the last year off of work to figure my life out. I spent it isolated, reading, contemplating, working on passions, etc. I feel like I've grown so much. 2 weeks ago I went back to work with stage blue/orange people and I feel more alone than I did when I was isolated. It's like I'm watching chimps in the zoo. I don't know if I feel more connected or disconnected. Like on one hand I understand people so much more. I can feel their energy and see they're motives behind everything they do. But on the other hand I find it very hard to participate in it without feeling inauthentic, so I sort of just "study it". I really miss being isolated now, it's where I feel my most authentic, but to be a sailor, you must leave the port I guess.

Are you me? This is exactly my current situation. 

To be a sailor, you must leave the port, but you must make sure you are sailing on the right sea. 

 

[JosephKnecht]

5 hours ago, mandyjw said:

The belief that you are susceptible to being dragged down in a level of consciousness of the others, or susceptible to being wrapped up in their stories, is a misunderstanding.

I don't think its just a belief. I think it is metaphysically true. 

If you believe its just a belief, try living in a poor African country and mix with the locals. 

Sooner or later, you must start dancing in a circle to invoke the Gods of rain. Either you believe that your dance will bring rain or you isolate completely from the tribe and live in isolation. 

I am making an extreme example just to make a point. 

[soos_mite_ah]

I think it's also to connect to yourself on a deeper level. Many people give up their belongings because they don't want to be defined by what they own. I think that can apply to people as well. When you have a lot of people and friends around, it's easy to fall into different social dynamics with them and then learn to define yourself relative to how you guys interact with one another (regardless of the consciousness level of you and the people you're interacting with). When you're alone, you don't get to bounce your identity, experiences, and personality back and forth with others. When you're alone, there is just the self and there is nothing else to connect to except the self.  I leaned so much more about myself in times when I was alone than times when I had a busy social circle because I was forced to look within myself rather than compare and interact externally and use those as a definition of who I am. 

Identity, experiences, personality, things, these are all identifiers of the false self or the ego. These are all subject to change and are fluent. The only thing that is constant is consciousness itself.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by soos_mite_ah

[JosephKnecht]

@soos_mite_ah Nicely said.

The Subject always needs Objects in relation to which the Subject could define itself. 

When there are no Others, there are no Objects, and the Subject/Object duality eventually collapses. 

Isolation is not a problem. It is part of the "intelligent design".

[Fadl]

23 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

If you spend an extended period of time with these "types of people", there is a high probability that you will regress to their understanding of reality.

 

Regressing means that you didn’t get it fully; if you see the sun with your own eyes no one can shake this fact inside your head … or makes you doubt it. When you regress (because of the otheres) you know for a fact that you didn’t comprehended it enough.