No breathing and egodeath on NN-DMT

[Marten]

Holy crap friends... something amazing just happened... wow...

I've been working with NN-DMT for the past weeks. It took a long time and a lot of trial and error to get the vaping technique down, using a simple standard glass oil pipe after Leo's recommendations. But holy shit it works so well. Just amazingly efficient now.

What I learned on technique. Definitely start with a low dose 5-10 mg (using a mg scale). 20 mg can be very strong for me if I hit it perfectly. This egodeath was on only 40 mg. I usually melt the powder in the pipe slowly with a storm/ gas lighter at a good 4 inches/ 10 cm away from the blue flame. After it melts I move the lighter closer to where the flame is about 1-2 inches/ 3-5 cm from the glass. At this point the DMT vaporizes fast so put the pipe in the mouth and exhale deeply. Then it's just a matter of slowly sucking in the vape at a pace where you can handle without coughing. When you get started it helps to inhale a bit of fresh air through the nose to mix with the vape to make it gentler. I got better results when the vape was quite thick and white. It's been best to take it all in one big hit. I found taking multiple hits that the substance would burn and produce nasty smoke/ taste and irritate the lungs. I also tend to get much more effect out of the first hit, then as the lungs get tired there's diminishing returns.

The trip. I took 40 mg of NN-DMT, all in one hit. Everything looked like it usually does for me on DMT - cartoonish, kind of like a 3d render, very colorful, bright, triangulated (see picture below) and shifting quite wildly. Pretty soon I lost the sense of self. It was very strange and amazing, like there was not much ground/ anchorage for my being, I could still sort of recognize where I was laying, but I forgot who I was, what I was. It was very weird not to breath, almost like being under water but then realizing that hey breathing is imaginary, no need to breath... like holy crap even breathing... so a bit of a struggle to let go of the attachment to breathing... I realized how grounding the breath it, a great sense of comfort. I forgot my name, then heard it and had no relation to it. It was quite a scary experience, like drowing, a bit of struggling to make sense of it, but I didn't freak out and I'm happy it was a quick dip into egodeath and not an hour long thing. It definitely takes some getting used to. It wasn't until after I started coming down that I could understand what happened and ground myself - BREATHE again. At that point I was laughing hard at even the breathe being IMAGINARY - like holy crap, even breathing?? WOW. ?❤️?

 

[meow_meow]

What exactly do you mean by breath being imaginary?

I like how Alan Watts described it in one of his lectures:
 

Quote

"When you don't focus your attention on breath it just happens involuntary, when you do focus it's both involuntary and voluntary."

 

[Marten]

@meow_meow Hehe... no I mean there's a space where there is no breathing. It felt like drowning because the ego is used to breathing and in this space there was no I and no breathing happening, which felt like drowning because of the habit and attachment to breathing. But at higher levels aparently it is not necessary to breathe... that is what was experienced, if the body was breathing from an external point of view or not I cannot say. This led to the conclusion of "breathing is imaginary", which seems to be true at higher levels of consciousness. It was over pretty quick, will have to explore this space more... ego death is way different than "normal" existence...

Edited August 31, 2020 by Marten

[allislove]

@Marten nice

Everything is imaginary and everything is you 

[Corpus]

The sensation of not breathing/being able to breathe is very common with vaporized DMT; it correlates with 5 HT2a receptor agonism in the brainstem.  To conclude that breathing is imaginary on the basis of this? I am not so sure; what I do know is that psychedelics can produce a lot of irrelevant noise and ideation which requires careful consideration to avoid constructing new beliefs which are questionable, and many many users have not cultivated that facility.

I wonder if the OP had the linguistic construct "X is imaginary" in the mind before it was able to take root after many hours watching Leos vids? The jolt of pleasure gained on making the conclusion re breathing which verifies/confirms/supports this notion will confirm its "validity" even further.

Psychedelics can illuminate; the same light can also dazzle.

Also, 40mg of DMT taken in one hit if optimally vaporized- all I can say is that OPs experience/description comes no where close and that is even if one factors in the linguistic barriers. This forum, bar a very few members, pays insufficient attention to techniques, and if a casual viewer of this forum were to get their psychedelic education here alone, ignorance and trauma would mushroom (no pun), and its this less than robust approach which serves to slow the acceptance more widely of these immense gifts.   

[Marten]

@Corpus  Are you a bot? Sure sound like one...

What is your own experience with NN-DMT?

[Marten]

@allislove

[Corpus]

49 minutes ago, Marten said:

@Corpus  Are you a bot? Sure sound like one...

What is your own experience with NN-DMT?

And how does a bot sound, specifically?

I first used DMT over 20 years ago, and have used it orally as ayahuasca, anahuasca and pharmahuasca; I have vaporized it alone and with harmala alkaloids, and after oral pharmaceutical MAO inhibitors. I stopped counting the number of breakthroughs once it got to 100.

[Marten]

@Corpus  Haha...

Wow nice, so what recommendations do you have about vaping technique?

[Nahm]

@Marten

Yep. Nice work Neo.

 

 

 

[Marten]

@Nahm Amazed at how deep this goes... breathtaking

[Corpus]

2 hours ago, Marten said:

@Corpus  Haha...

Wow nice, so what recommendations do you have about vaping technique?

I agree with you on 1 inhalation propelling you further; any method which utilises direct heat transfer via conduction to freebase DMT is , IME, vastly inferior to methods which vaporize via convection. The difference is utterly radical, and has to be experienced to be believed. 25mg taken thus will transport one to another reality; with 30mg it matters not if eyes are open or closed as the newly constructed inner world becomes the outer world, and 40mg is too much to work with repeatedly, as it only has 1 lesson to impart. The Sherlock Glass VaporGenie with a little practice can allow access to all 3 "places" reliably and repeatedly, IME. In terms of deep and enduring insights, vaporized DMT is less productive than the oral route.

 

8 hours ago, Marten said:

@meow_meow Hehe... no I mean there's a space where there is no breathing. It felt like drowning because the ego is used to breathing and in this space there was no I and no breathing happening, which felt like drowning because of the habit and attachment to breathing. But at higher levels aparently it is not necessary to breathe... that is what was experienced, if the body was breathing from an external point of view or not I cannot say. This led to the conclusion of "breathing is imaginary", which seems to be true at higher levels of consciousness. It was over pretty quick, will have to explore this space more... ego death is way different than "normal" existence...

If there was no "I", who was it that felt/discerned that it was "like drowning"? Is this too nothing but imagination?

 Not feeling ones breathing does not necessarily mean breathing was not happening. If no breathing (from a relative perspective) did  happen for the duration of a DMT experience (several minutes minimum) your imaginary brain would not be immune to some kind of detrimental effect. 

 

DMT is rarely non-dual but can be manipulated to be so. Vaporizing 30mgs with headphones and music on opens up the breadth of the experiences afforded infinitely in a way that is the antithesis of "The Void". Consciousness expands to become the experience as any mental chatter is snuffed out and attention fuses/becomes the audio-visual, should one accept the annihilation presented without resistance. Release of this resistance is what makes DMT in essence more of a challenge than 5 MeO DMT once one has broken through on the latter a few times. 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Corpus
typo

[Marten]

18 hours ago, Corpus said:

The Sherlock Glass VaporGenie with a little practice can allow access to all 3 "places" reliably and repeatedly, IME. In terms of deep and enduring insights, vaporized DMT is less productive than the oral route.

Thanks, cool, look forward to trying the GVG. What's your prefered way of oral administration and how has it been more deep and enduring for you?

18 hours ago, Corpus said:

If there was no "I", who was it that felt/discerned that it was "like drowning"? Is this too nothing but imagination?

That is precisely what came as I was coming down... everything is imaginary, I, you, even fucking breathing... it is the ego that was drowning and what was learned was that it is all imaginary, nothing to hold on to.

18 hours ago, Corpus said:

Not feeling ones breathing does not necessarily mean breathing was not happening.

This is sort of irrelevant to the insights and experience. Ultimately everything is imaginary and every trip I've had (on different substances) has showed me this from different perspectives. Going ever more deeply into it.

18 hours ago, Corpus said:

Release of this resistance

THAT is what is being shown in this trip. Surrender.

I am curious, in your 100+ ego deaths, have you been in a state without EXPERIENCING breathing?

[Corpus]

24 minutes ago, Marten said:

Thanks, cool, look forward to trying the GVG. What's your prefered way of oral administration and how has it been more deep and enduring for you?

I am curious, in your 100+ ego deaths, have you been in a state without EXPERIENCING breathing?

The harmala alkaloids from B Caapi and P Harmala modify the DMT experience when using the oral route, something not seen with pharmaceutical RIMAs like moclobemide which give a "colder" more stark experience.

In terms of experiencing breathing whilst in DMT hyperspace (and this is not always the same as ego-death)- perhaps the best answer would be to relate "experience" and the having of it as being closely allied to the interplay of  awareness, intention and attention. In a true DMT ego-death, "experience" and "awareness", their inseparability and fusion with no conscious intention nor focus of attention "happens", so everything and nothing is "experienced", including breathing.    

[StudentOfLeove]

I cant take it. You guys are way too funny. You make this so much fun for me. Thx for that

[Marten]

@Corpus  Thanks for clearifying for a beginner, appreciate it! I'll consider oral DMT in the future, the list of substances to work with is getting pretty long at this point. Look forward to go deeper into ego death and yes I am open to the no breathing part just being a side effect, and not really something to do with awakening.

[Marten]

@StudentOfLeove Enjoy friend, it is all LOVE.

[Corpus]

33 minutes ago, Marten said:

@Corpus  Thanks for clearifying for a beginner, appreciate it! I'll consider oral DMT in the future, the list of substances to work with is getting pretty long at this point. Look forward to go deeper into ego death and yes I am open to the no breathing part just being a side effect, and not really something to do with awakening.

May I offer some unsolicited advice? One thing I have learned from using psychedelics many times, at varying doses and almost always alone, is that it takes real wisdom and nuance to extract the best that these tools have to offer. They are seductive, beguiling and wholly capable of seeding wishful narratives which can endure and then need deconstructing before allowing real progress. The fact/observation that many who are better versed than me in these matters had enduring awakenings by LEAVING these tools behind should give pause for thought. 5 MeO DMT may be an outlier in this regard but that remains to be seen. "Naïve Realism" towards the experiences it offers, despite the magnitude of these experiences (ie concretizing the insights gained as Ultimate Truth)- seems simplistic and a little "wishful" , and with the amount of 5 MeO DMT/B Alvarius venom users out there, wouldn't it be wise to note that reports of enduring awakening as a result are not plentiful?

[Javfly33]

People don't get how radical Truth is .

When you go to sleep, of course breathing is not happening. The fact that you imagine that when you have been sleeping a body has been breathing is in fact, a thought, a guess, an imagination that is NOT actuality.

You realized that in actuality there was NO breathing, and indeed.

Breath is imaginary, as everything.

Just make sure when the neccesity of Breathing is bring imagined, you actually Breath. ?

[Corpus]

21 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

People don't get how radical Truth is .

When you go to sleep, of course breathing is not happening.

Perhaps qualifying this statement with "in your experience" might make it reasonable. 

 

27 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Just make sure when the neccesity of Breathing is bring imagined, you actually Breath. ?

 So is imagining a necessity, and what makes it so?