Is Consciousness there during deep sleep?

[Someone here]

@Nahm where do beliefs come from? 

For example if you ask 99% of people do you believe you go to sleep and wake up they will tell you yes. 

If you ask 99 % of people do you believe the sun exists they will tell you yes. 

If you ask 99% of people do you believe Zeus exist they will tell you NO.   

What's the difference?

A belief is a statement about reality. It could be false or true.  Depending on how much accurate it is describing the world.  No statement is 100% accurate ofcourse but some are more accurate than others. 

If you are denying all beliefs.. All language all logic.. Then what are you talking about even lol??  How can we communicate?  What makes anything true or false?   

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Too much belief in this leaves little room for actual awakening

I don't want to die btw 

[lmfao]

Now if you're inquiring into this topic as part of some formal practice, well then the answer would be you can only talk about what's in your direct experience regardless of what science says. e.g. when you close your eyes, you assume the outer world doesn't exist. 

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I'm not an expert on the phases of sleep. We aren't dreaming when deep sleep occurs I suppose ? Even if we aren't dreaming, and even if we aren't awake, it's possible there's still consciousness even if it is profoundly different from waking or dream consciousness.

I don't have any memory of deep sleep because otherwise it wouldn't be deep sleep, correct? But I then can't use my lack of memory to justify saying, I know for certain there is no consciousness during it. The state of consciousness is just such that I can't examine or analyse it in this way. 

Scientifically, people's bodies aren't inactive when they are asleep. Their brain still has activity, their body is doing things, resting in the yin and darkness. Perhaps the state of consciousness and the ego in it is so extremely warped in structure and mechanism we have no way of being aware of it and remembering it. This waking state where I'm aware of myself is a state of consciousness, perhaps this is a state of consciousness where you have no awareness of yourself ! 

There is a lens through which yogically, sleep is seen as "death". Sadhguru thinks this. I don't think this (but I don't think it's false either, in certain contexts I agree with the lens ) , but I'm sure its a lens you could look at if you want. I know that in Islam, there's the idea your soul leaves your body whenever you sleep
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What if deep sleep is like being an embryo in your mother's womb? We have no reference for understanding such a bizarre thing. Maybe if I/we did psychedelics or were intense meditators such a thing would be a little more sense-able. 

Sleep walks the line between life and death. As do foetuses walk that line. Interesting stuff. Life and death are powerful things to examine. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by lmfao

[Osaid]

I disagree. It actually is possible to experience absolutely nothing while being aware, AKA turiya. Deep sleep is different than turiya/experiencing nothing. In fact, the "experience" of deep sleep (unconsciousness) doesn't even exist. It is an extrapolation created by the finite mind to explain the change between being asleep and awake. The idea of "unconsciousness" has always just been in your imagination and not in your actual experience.

[Nahm]

54 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm where do beliefs come from? 

For example if you ask 99% of people do you believe you go to sleep and wake up they will tell you yes. 

If you ask 99 % of people do you believe the sun exists they will tell you yes. 

If you ask 99% of people do you believe Zeus exist they will tell you NO.   

What's the difference?

A belief is a statement about reality. It could be false or true.  Depending on how much accurate it is describing the world.  No statement is 100% accurate ofcourse but some are more accurate than others. 

If you are denying all beliefs.. All language all logic.. Then what are you talking about even lol??  How can we communicate?  What makes anything true or false?   

I don't want to die btw 

Is it possible, in your estimation, to deny something which doesn’t exist to begin with?

A belief is not The Truth, that’s all. But then all beliefs are The Truth. 

If you build a house out of legos and ask “is there a house there?”, well, yeah there is. It’s a lego house. If you ask “but what is the house really?”, well, it’s legos. There isn’t really a house there. 

Is there a you? Well, yeah. But what are you really? Well, consciousness. But if you believe you’re consciousness, that is not the Truth because it’s a belief. So therefore you must see for yourself, so there is no possibility remaining of belief. Seemingly paradoxically once you do, there is no Truth. 

Death is the lego house, not the legos. 

[allislove]

Quote

Is Consciousness there during deep sleep?

There is nothing but Consciousness. 

To have some sleep analogy:
I am a screen. The movie plays on the screen that I am 30yo male, in the movie's night the screen is turned off, so no movie, then it turned on again with morning decorations. It doesn't make sense to say "I sleep". The concept of sleep applies only to the movie, but I am the screen, always here&now. 

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Is it possible, in your estimation, to deny something which doesn’t exist to begin with?

A belief is not The Truth, that’s all. But then all beliefs are The Truth. 

If you build a house out of legos and ask “is there a house there?”, well, yeah there is. It’s a lego house. If you ask “but what is the house really?”, well, it’s legos. There isn’t really a house there. 

Is there a you? Well, yeah. But what are you really? Well, consciousness. But if you believe you’re consciousness, that is not the Truth because it’s a belief. So therefore you must see for yourself, so there is no possibility remaining of belief. Seemingly paradoxically once you do, there is no Truth. 

Death is the lego house, not the legos. 

I agree with all that. Except maybe the last statement. I remain skeptical about death because I simply have no idea what happens after death.. The very idea that I'm gonna die someday is just a belief lol.... 

So to connect back to sleep and consciousness.. I'm consciousness.. That is my identity.. That is what I am.. Because I'm not any object of experience.. You could say I'm experience itself.. All that is fine.. Now this body gets tired.. It goes to bed.. Eyes closed.. Then something happens.. Phrase it however you want.. But what happens is all the content that I know of reality simply disappears.. All without exception.. Untill nothing is left.. these are not beliefs.. I'm describing sleep that we all experience for a period of time equals half of our lifetime!,!!   Now that we agree I'm consciousness.. In deep sleep there is no consciousness. And there is no me as a carrier of consciousness or as consciousness itself.... If that's not true please explain to me how is that not true without using "deep sleep is a concept" or "you can't experience no experience"... I understand these two arguments and they are not quite convincing because what happens every night Is I simply disappear along with everything else. Thanks. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Someone here

[Fran11]

Unenlightened waking state: World Perception

Enlightened waking state: World Perception + Conciousness of the Absolute.

Enlightened deep sleep: Conciousness of the Absolute.

Unenlightened deep sleep: Neither World nor the Absolute. But it's still a state of the Relative layer of conciousness. This layer has infinite levels, it can be very high or completely off without content nor God-realization like in deep sleep.

Deep sleep is a state of conciousness.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Fran11

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I agree with all that. Except maybe the last statement. I remain skeptical about death because I simply have no idea what happens after death.. The very idea that I'm gonna die someday is just a belief lol.... 

That you are skeptical of your own beliefs, is actually a belief you’re holding. Your approach could be fine tuned. You’re stance is “if no one can disprove something than I must be right, I must have the correct view / understanding”. Understanding is going on on floor 80, we’re talking about floor 10, so to speak. You can’t know floor 10 by talking about it on floor 80. You have to go see floor 10. 

Contemplate...how many believers in death are you actually directly aware of? If you contemplate & investigate that thoroughly, you will find the answer to be zero.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So to connect back to sleep and consciousness.. I'm consciousness.. That is my identity.. That is what I am.. Because I'm not any object of experience.. You could say I'm experience itself.. All that is fine.. Now this body gets tired.. It goes to bed.. Eyes closed.. Then something happens.. Phrase it however you want.. But what happens is all the content that I know of reality simply disappears.. All without exception.. Untill nothing is left.. these are not beliefs.. I'm describing sleep that we all experience for a period of time equals half of our lifetime!,!!   Now that we agree I'm consciousness.. In deep sleep there is no consciousness. And there is no me as a carrier of consciousness or as consciousness itself.... If that's not true please explain to me how is that not true without using "deep sleep is a concept" or "you can't experience no experience"... I understand these two arguments and they are not quite convincing because what happens every night Is I simply disappear along with everything else. Thanks. 

That consciousness is your identity is a belief. Fingers are pointing to the moon, but rather than looking at the moon, you’re identifying with the perceived implication (your idea) of the pointing. When you actually see what consciousness is, the last “thing” you’d identify with or as, is consciousness.  “Content” also, is a belief. How many believers in content are you directly aware of?  Deep sleep is your belief. Contemplate, how many believers of deep sleep are you actually directly aware of? (Not your thoughts about what someone else says they think, not your hearing of what anyone says they believe, but, direct experience.)

This is the place on the path where you realize thinking & what other people say or think has reached it’s natural ceiling. You must go alone and see. To ‘get there’, you will empty of (not face, empty of) every single fear, falsity and belief. What you’re thinking & believing is reality is not reality. Horton is reality, and Horton is being Whoville & all The Who’s. 

That aside, yes, you disappear. Which is not the same as saying you sleep. If you were watching a movie and people were awake and asleep in it, it’d be obvious that you are not...just the actors in the movie are. Even if you were one of the actors in the movie, this would still be obvious. Yet in “real life” it is not obvious. This is because you identify as the apparent actor, as you should. It’s perfectly innocent and normal of course. But so is recognizing the call of the intuition, and going to see. Not trying to apply pressure or anything. Hope it doesn’t come off that way. You can always wait until a future life. 

[Inliytened1]

@BipolarGrowth There is always Consciousness.  But finite consciousness can forget what it had for breakfast.  It doesn't matter because  Absolutely speaking there is only the present moment.  Only right now.