A world with eternal suffering?

[actualizing25]

So if god is absolute infinity, it would mean that he/she/it experiences everything that can be experienced. That would include experiencing a world in which creatures are living in an eternal hell only experiencing deep deep suffering forever with no end. Because god is everything he/she/it would allow these conditions, no matter if it pleases other creatures or gives them eternal suffering.

We as humans can experience suffering aswell, but there is also joy and pleasure here to experience and our lives are not eternal (physical death and limiting time are existing). So we should be thankful that god gives us joy and happiness besides suffering because in our next lives we can maybe experience lives which only consist of deep suffering and that maybe for a very long time.

[Exystem]

The question is - what is suffering when there is no opposite to it? Does it stay the same forever? Or is it rather defined by the fact that you are identifying with something that dissolves? You can only suffer the deconstruction of something which has been constructed before - like your body. This deconstruction equals suffering, so the construction must equal the opposite, joy. But what limited thing can dissolve/be deconstructed forever? Nothing. There must be construction/joy in the first place to experience deconstruction/suffering.

Suffering is nothing but (the fear of) dissolution/deconstruction/destruction. Every pain is nothing but an alarm signal from your body which fears death. As an eternal beeing, there is no fear of death. As a limited beeing either you completely dissolve one day which is ending (you and) your suffering or you get used to the suffering as the new standard because you have no reference point for it, or you stop identifying with that which dissolves and realize yourself as that which can never dissolve.

You can think of suffering as loss of energy(joy). There must be energy in the first place to experience its loss. Either it is limited, which implies that it will dissolve within a limited period of time, or it is unlimited and must therefore be constantly reproduced, which then would cause at least as much joy as suffering. But you know, energy can't be destroyed, only shifted from one place to another. So of course there are limited creatures experiencing hell, but not forever. They are gods relative reference point for the joy it actually consists of.

Or to put it in other words:

The facilitators of darkness
Are the true providers
To the world's light

 

[Someone here]

It doesn't make sense.   If an experience of pain is intensified to infinite degrees it will be no longer "pain". It will collapse and you won't feel anything.  Just like when you get used to something you stop feeling it's presence after a while.   That's why the idea of hell never made sense to me.. There is actually a "threshold of pain" in your brain.  If the sensation is less or bigger than a certain range of electrical power.. You simply won't feel it.    

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_pain

Also I don't buy the reasoning "because God is infinity he must experience everything".. But God is not a dumb mechanical deterministic mathematical formula.  Think about it if you are all powerful would you use your power to torture yourself forever?  That means you are all-dumb as well.. But as far as I know God is all-intelligent! 

[WaveInTheOcean]

7 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

So if god is absolute infinity, it would mean that he/she/it experiences everything that can be experienced. That would include experiencing a world in which creatures are living in an eternal hell only experiencing deep deep suffering forever with no end. Because god is everything he/she/it would allow these conditions, no matter if it pleases other creatures or gives them eternal suffering.

No creature lives eternally, so don't worry bout that.

God's highest priority is maximizing Love, so of course he wouldn't let himself experience eternal hell without any salvation.

Luckily, death is always the greatest of all salvations. 

The salvation of death(merging with himself/oneness) feels greater for God the more pain he endured beforehand, so there's always love-logic behind everything that happens.

Everything that happens -- even though there can happen infinite things, cos yes, God is infinite -- is designed for maximizing Love.

Now, what is Love? It's the basic substance of existence. Everything is in fact made out of Love. It's equal to consciousness. You can feel love in many ways of course. 

Now, if love is the basic substance of existence, if Love = God = Reality , why does God not just bathe in his own infinite pool of Love/Oneness forever? Well, I did, then I got tired of it, wanted some more spice, wanted to create a dangerous game, where it feels like I'm just a 'poor-little-me' stuck in a cruel world, forgetting myself, running around hoping to find answers, happiness, creating technology, creating things, imagination. 

All of existence is a trade-off for God between infinite imagination (play) and Oneness/Infinite Love. He wants both. He wants it to be dangerous and fucked up and messed up, only to feel even more Infinite Love when he finally goes back to himself and sees it was just his own game of pretending to be a human:D <3 

[WaveInTheOcean]

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

No creature lives eternally, so don't worry bout that.

God's highest priority is maximizing Love, so of course he wouldn't let himself experience eternal hell without any salvation.

Luckily, death is always the greatest of all salvations. 

The salvation of death(merging with himself/oneness) feels greater for God the more pain he endured beforehand, so there's always love-logic behind everything that happens.

Everything that happens -- even though there can happen infinite things, cos yes, God is infinite -- is designed for maximizing Love.

Now, what is Love? It's the basic substance of existence. Everything is in fact made out of Love. It's equal to consciousness. You can feel love in many ways of course. 

Now, if love is the basic substance of existence, if Love = God = Reality , why does God not just bathe in his own infinite pool of Love/Oneness forever? Well, I did, then I got tired of it, wanted some more spice, wanted to create a dangerous game, where it feels like I'm just a 'poor-little-me' stuck in a cruel world, forgetting myself, running around hoping to find answers, happiness, creating technology, creating things, imagination. 

All of existence is a trade-off for God between infinite imagination (play) and Oneness/Infinite Love. He wants both. He wants it to be dangerous and fucked up and messed up, only to feel even more Infinite Love when he finally goes back to himself and sees it was just his own game of pretending to be a human:D <3 

How is that any different from any other religious story?  Any actuality to any of that????? 

[allislove]

@actualizing25 Infinity means it's everything that is Now. Suffering is relative, absolutely speaking, there is none.

[WaveInTheOcean]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How is that any different from any other religious story?  Any actuality to any of that????? 

no difference at all.

What story do you want to believe in?

I'd choose the story that maximizes your joy, happiness and outlook on your life. I do that myself, everything else seems rather silly.

I could tell you there is direct experience/actuality behind it, but isn't that the case for all stories, all myths, including atheism?

And what difference does it make to you if I say I'm following a belief system/3rd-part story or if there actually is actuality behind it? To you, it would still be hearsay in either case.

Of course, to find out what is Absolutely True, you have to go beyond words, beyond beliefs. 

What is Absolutely True can't be explained with words, so of course I'm just having fun here, creating my own narrative, my own story. But of course there is actuality behind it. How could there not be? :> <3

All stories are stories. Everything that can be said with words is a story. The Absolute Truth of God/Nothingness/Love/Consciousness shows you that you are that itself: God, Nothing, Everything, Infinite Love/Consciousness. Thus you are in perfect control to create ANY story you want. No story is anymore true than any other story. Of course, some stories are more useful than other for particular things. Atheism/science is very bad at creating happiness, but is good at creating technology (which can help makes os happier in indirect ways). Religious stories are good at making us feel happy, but pretty bad at creating computers or medicine.

Of course, the only story what will you make permanently infinitely happy is not a story, but the truth, which can't be put into words. It's right there in front of our eyes. God, Nothingness, Awareness whatever you wanna call the Absolute/Divine.
 

 
 

Edited August 29, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[actualizing25]

@WaveInTheOcean But wouldnt eternal hell (or hell for a very long time) be a part of absolute infinity? because absolute infinity includes EVERYTHING, so that would mean that there would be maybe worlds with creatures who are in constant pain. Absolute infinity includes everything, so that aswell.

[WaveInTheOcean]

12 minutes ago, actualizing25 said:

@WaveInTheOcean But wouldnt eternal hell (or hell for a very long time) be a part of absolute infinity? because absolute infinity includes EVERYTHING, so that would mean that there would be maybe worlds with creatures who are in constant pain. Absolute infinity includes everything, so that aswell.

"very long time", yeah sure. I've been through hell myself. I personally, egoistically doubt anyone can really awaken without going through hell first, but hey, maybe I'm wrong..., after all, there is no one here, ehe <3

Edited August 29, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[actualizing25]

@WaveInTheOcean and an eternal hell is also a part of absolute infinity because Absolute infinity is everything what you can imagine.

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

So if god is absolute infinity, it would mean that he/she/it experiences everything that can be experienced. That would include experiencing a world in which creatures are living in an eternal hell only experiencing deep deep suffering forever with no end. Because god is everything he/she/it would allow these conditions, no matter if it pleases other creatures or gives them eternal suffering.

No it does not. 

Infinity does not experience other than infinity, because infinity. Infinite can not know finite, because infinite. These things you’re thinking up are finite thoughts, which are made of, or are actually, infinity, so they can never be about infinity, they only appear to be. 

Quote

We as humans can experience suffering aswell, but there is also joy and pleasure here to experience and our lives are not eternal (physical death and limiting time are existing). So we should be thankful that god gives us joy and happiness besides suffering because in our next lives we can maybe experience lives which only consist of deep suffering and that maybe for a very long time.

Eternity can not know time, our, or lives. God does not give a you joy and happiness. God is you, is joy, is happiness. When you suffer, God is not. Absolute infinity is not everything you can imagine, everything you can imagine is finite. 

[zeroISinfinity]

1 hour ago, allislove said:

@actualizing25 Infinity means it's everything that is Now. Suffering is relative, absolutely speaking, there is none.

There ain't no any in relative too. Literally have to become mobster to experience it. Not joking. 

[allislove]

8 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

There ain't no any in relative too. Literally have to become mobster to experience it. Not joking. 

Still on the forum?  

[zeroISinfinity]

Also poses fundamental question why the fuck would you dream anymore? 

Main question of whole thing. When you can just completelly surrender and get back to being formless. 

Dreaming is not actually needed at all. But fun and giggles I guess. 

[Nahm]

@zeroISinfinity

What’s this “dreaming” you speak of?

?

[allislove]

@zeroISinfinity

There's no difference between dreaming and you. You are fun  

[zeroISinfinity]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@zeroISinfinity

What’s this “dreaming” you speak of?

?

 

Just now, allislove said:

@zeroISinfinity

There's no difference between dreaming and you. You are fun  

Ofcourse I know that. Alone, Alone. I really just want home. Teaching this stuff=mindfuck. I really don't know anymore should I help or not. 

Life is fun you get chance to you know achieve and create life without ever facing this stuff and without worry. You are so into it. 

As this "thing" you actually don't need anything. 

Why not just go home then? 

[allislove]

@zeroISinfinity because you are already home. 

You are not alone, you are everything.

Relax, look at the hand, deep breath, move fingers, that's the pure magic, and it's you  

[Artsu]

We all go to heaven one day.