What to make of Alan Watts?

[Tim R]

We all know Alan Watts and some of us were introduced to spirituality through him. I think he never claimed  to be enlightened or anything along those lines, but - I suppose he was. However, he had a problem with alcohol. In his book "Tao - The Watercourse Way" (which is a great book) there is a passage which took me somewhat by surprise:

''He (Alan) revealed the crux of this tragedy shared by most men in this unbalanced time by admitting ""But I don't like myself when I'm sober"", as he surrendered to another shot of vodka at a time when he knew he need not and should not rely on it any more."

So, he had a drinking problem (and he smoked, a lot). He died at the age of 58 due to a cardiac insufficiency (which by the way isn't necessarily related to his alcohol consumption; alcohol(ism) is only in about 20% of all the cases of heart insufficiency the cause!)

Does this somehow influence his work?

Can one be an alcoholic or and addict and yet be enlightened?

Do we have to re-evaluate his teachings?

I'll be forever grateful for his teachings...

[meow_meow]

33 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Forget about the man, and focus solely on the teachings.

Exactly.
I remember when I first listened to one of his lectures on youtube when I just started personal development work and I couldn't understand a word he was saying. Now a year later with a couple of realizations (no-self etc) he seems enlightened as fuck.. I think he's talent was to be poetic and explain in words what other teachers struggle with explaining.

[VeganAwake]

36 minutes ago, Tim R said:

We all know Alan Watts and some of us were introduced to spirituality through him. I think he never claimed  to be enlightened or anything along those lines, but - I suppose he was. However, he had a problem with alcohol. In his book "Tao - The Watercourse Way" (which is a great book) there is a passage which took me somewhat by surprise:

''He (Alan) revealed the crux of this tragedy shared by most men in this unbalanced time by admitting ""But I don't like myself when I'm sober"", as he surrendered to another shot of vodka at a time when he knew he need not and should not rely on it any more."

So, he had a drinking problem (and he smoked, a lot). He died at the age of 58 due to a cardiac insufficiency (which by the way isn't necessarily related to his alcohol consumption; alcohol(ism) is only in about 20% of all the cases of heart insufficiency the cause!)

Does this somehow influence his work?

Can one be an alcoholic or and addict and yet be enlightened?

Do we have to re-evaluate his teachings?

I'll be forever grateful for his teachings...

Some questions:

What is enlightenment?

Who had a problem with alcohol?...the Alan Watts character?... the body of an apparent separate individual named Alan Watts?... 

Who wants to re-evaluate his teaching?

Who are you?

Is there a character that exists inside that body?

What does it consist of?

 

 

[outlandish]

49 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Forget about the man, and focus solely on the teachings. Do they resonate with you, yes or no? If yes, keep listening. If no, find other sources. Talking the talk does not equal walking the walk. 

Yeah, you nailed it. Our judgements of him as an individual aren't very relevant, the question of whether or not he was enlightened is meaningless.

We don't really see the real Alan Watts, we see the Alan Watts stage entertainer persona. This persona was an exceptional vessel for transmitting the essence of zen and eastern mysticism to a western audience. He got it, and was able to convey it, in a way that is still relevant and has touched millions of people. 

But Alan Watts was a real human, living with real frailties. He was a genius scholar of Zen who doubtlessly touched down on the deepest mystical insights, and had the gift of pointing towards the moon just so. And none of that erased his flesh and blood existence, which happened to be tragically addicted to alcohol, among countless other shortcomings no doubt.

[Johnny5]

Alan Watts was an essential stepping stone for me at the time (about a decade ago). Highly recommended for anyone with an interest.

It's like "emptiness for dummies", an excellent start in deconstructing the rigidity of dualistic worldviews, and entertaining to boot.

I used to listen to these over and over again: https://www.soundstrue.com/products/out-of-your-mind

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

I LOVE Alan Watts; his philosophy revolving around the figure of the Joker who sees right through the fassade of reality and looks at life as nothing but a funny game is just wonderful, and his cavalier & alcoholic personality just makes the guy more relatable and fascinating! He never was one of those 'Enlightened people shouldn't do this or that' kind of people who like to wag their fingers at folks who in their view 'misbehave' somehow, but on the contrary very free-spitrited, impish and with a wicked sense of humor; an old-school british Oxford-Gentleman turned non-dualist hippie.

[hoodrow trillson]

IMO he was a diamond in the rough.  Although the character Alan Watts still suffered, he saw through that suffering and decided to spread the truth and love and joy in the form of teaching.

[Inliytened1]

@Tim R the others had some really good answers for ya.  It really doesn't matter if he was enlightened or not.  If you were to wonder though, it would really depend on what you consider enlightenment to be - it's relative.   If you consider enlightenment to be accessing non-dual states of consciousness - aka mystical experiences - (samadhi) that accompany realizations of various facets of the Absolute - then yes you can be enlightened as a mofo and your ego can still be addicted to stuff.  Because the ego completely dissolves during such states.  

If you consider enlightenment to be fully embodying Being all the time - even as the ego -and thus abiding in it even back in duality - (in which case the individual works to purify their ego by vanquishing addiction and other things that can trap the ego and mask suffering with "pleasure".  This is really where the real work comes in.   It takes a lot of inner work and strength to embody God on an everyday basis and not give in to the ego's selfishness.   But typically it will tend to be a lot easier and even completely natural to beat these things for someone who has accessed mystical states of consciousness, because these people tend to be pretty conscious as it is of what is real and what is illusory.   

 

[Farnaby]

Personally, he's my favorite philosopher/spiritual teacher. 

And he certainly seemed pretty enlightened to me.

I find that most spiritual teachers are very narcissistic (Osho, Mooji, Teal Swan, Abraham Hicks, even Terence Mckenna) which I personally don't like.

Maybe Alan Watts also liked to be a "showman" but I find him more humble. 

[Tim R]

4 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

Personally, he's my favorite philosopher/spiritual teacher. 

Uhh don't let Leo hear this!

[Farnaby]

@Tim R haha I like most of Leo's teachings a lot and I think he communicates them very clearly. 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Farnaby said:

Personally, he's my favorite philosopher/spiritual teacher. 

And he certainly seemed pretty enlightened to me.

I find that most spiritual teachers are very narcissistic (Osho, Mooji, Teal Swan, Abraham Hicks, even Terence Mckenna) which I personally don't like.

Maybe Alan Watts also liked to be a "showman" but I find him more humble. 

Yeah I used to think my fitness instructor was a narcissist until he got me benching 275lbs and squatting 650lbs... turns out he knew what he was talking about and the negative connotation was just my projection.

 

How dare you categorize the Beloved Master as a narcissist.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

@Farnaby ❤ that was one of my awkward jokes ?

 

[No Self]

Sri Maharaj seemed to be addicted to smoking. Never stopped him from being the real McCoy.

[Matt23]

He was one, if not the, first person who introduced me to spirituality and enlightenment.  Something about his voice and way of speaking appealed to me.  Both logical, sober, intelligent and wise, yet playful, open, soothing, and uplifting.  

I never really saw him as a hard-nosed, A-B-C-D teacher who can lay out practical advice and such.  Though I'm not familiar with all his work.  I did enjoy how he poetically talked about things though.  Like it was a good mix of intellectual things, philosophy, motivation and poetry.  Some "airy-fair" stuff (not saying this in a negative way) with some "harder-nosed" stuff.

Enjoyed his person and style.

[davebryand]

8 hours ago, Johnny5 said:

Alan Watts was an essential stepping stone for me at the time (about a decade ago). Highly recommended for anyone with an interest.

It's like "emptiness for dummies", an excellent start in deconstructing the rigidity of dualistic worldviews, and entertaining to boot.

I used to listen to these over and over again: https://www.soundstrue.com/products/out-of-your-mind

 

This was the same for me. He said things in a way that rung my bell. ???

Edited August 29, 2020 by davebryand

[WaveInTheOcean]

Alan Watts understood it/this is all a game. There are infinite games you can play, but to be serious and say "I am not playing. Existence is fucking serious man, and here is my book on how to live" is basically to be as far away from God as you can be. 

Alan Watts said that even though it's a big game of God; you can still play it sincerely, just as you still play your favorite board game sincerly, even though you know it's just a game:-)

Alan Watts will personally always be my favorite philosopher/spiritual guide. What his words has done to my life is indescribable.