Kenosha shooting

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

Imagine also that Trump was a compassionate responsible, being of light and love. Could he stop the riots by being a beautiful human being?

Of course!! If Trump was compassionate, responsible, being of light and love - he would want to understand the underlying reasons why people are protesting and rioting. He would speak with community members about their grievances and include them in discussions about potential solutions. For example, poor handling of the pandemic has caused a major health and economic crises that is especially hurting poor urban areas. There are tens of millions of people that have become unemployed and are facing eviction. During this crisis, Republicans sent a trillion dollars of tax payer money to billionaires and gave those in need a few peanuts. A compassionate, responsible being of light and love would recognize that this is related to, and contributing to, problems in low income areas. A compassionate, responsible leader might say “What a minute. During the worst health and economic crisis in our countries history, perhaps we shouldn’t be sending a trillion dollars of tax payer money to billionaires. When people are losing their jobs and getting evicted, why should taxpayers be paying for a billionaire’s third yacht that he won’t even use?”. A compassionate, responsible leader would use that taxpayer money to help support those in need and create resources in those communities. That would help reduce some of the tension driving the riots. Of course this won’t solve the entire problem, yet it would certainly help.  

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, BLACKHOLE said:

It’s very painful to see so many business owners that have lost their lifetime businesses because of the looters. All these business owners are decent and hardworking people that have nothing to do with Racism or Dems or Reps but somehow they have ended up paying the highest price. It’s hard to understand why so much hatred toward so many innocent people.

I haven’t seen much hatred toward business owners that have been negatively impacted by looters or rioters. Being sympathetic to the underlying reasons driving looting and riots does not condone the looting or riots. It also doesn’t mean that one hates the business owners.

Imagine a father abuses his child. We could come to understand that the father himself was abused as a child and has PTSD. The father has no health insurance and had no resources to heal. Understanding the bigger picture of the reasons the father is abusing the child does not mean that we condone the abuse. It does not mean that we hate the child. It does not mean that the father has zero responsibility. We may need to separate the father from the child. We may need to put the father in a rehabilitation center. Yet we can do so by looking at the bigger picture of causation. Such a systemic view can better help us address underlying issues. 

In the case of the protests and riots, what are the underlying issues driving their behavior? Not just the proximal cause. Consider the systemic ultimate causes. What impact do you think extreme inequality has on a poor community? What is the impact of ignoring the grievances of a poor community?’ What impact does lack of police, political, corporate and governmental accountability have? This doesn’t condone looting or destroying property, yet it can allow us to better understand the underlying factors of the grievances driving riots. Thinking that the rioters are a bunch of criminals that deserve to be put in jail is a myopic view that doesn’t look at the bigger picture. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

Imagine also that Trump was a compassionate responsible, being of light and love. Could he stop the riots by being a beautiful human being?

The riots are stopped by police already.

Trump could certainly stop the protests by listening to them and putting forth a solution on police reform and increasing black rights.

[Danioover9000]

@Arcangelo

17 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

No I mean people with megaphones shouting in peoples ears when they are eating at a restaurant. Some people call it assault. Their tolerance is incredible, I would snatch the megaphone from their hands and probably get killed. But that's just me. But most likely I would go inside the restaurant and tell the guys to pack my food and go home and eat it there so I don't get killed. Depends on how I am feeling that day. Tell Christy I say hi.

 

Arc

   Yeah that just sucks, I wouldn't fancy someone screaming in my ear while eating, so definitely takeaway or delivery. Without some meditation, visualization or concentration practices, I doubt average people have that level of tolerance. Depending on my day, I'd leave, but touch my body, that's it.

[BLACKHOLE]

@Forestluv I understand there should be an underlying reason for a reaction like that but still the end doesn’t justify the means. Along history it has been proven that peaceful protesting can come a long way, long way with amazing and very positive results. MLK, Mandela, Gandhi and many others are proof of that, obviously these individuals were highly conscious beings unlike the current BLM movement which seems not to have any clear direction or leadership. 

Thanks for your response.
 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, BLACKHOLE said:

@Forestluv I understand there should be an underlying reason for a reaction like that but still the end doesn’t justify the means. Along history it has been proven that peaceful protesting can come a long way, long way with amazing and very positive results. MLK, Mandela, Gandhi and many others are proof of that, obviously these individuals were highly conscious beings unlike the current BLM movement which seems not to have any clear direction or leadership. 
 

Every massive movement toward equality and justice has had elements of violence. The evolution of peaceful protests is relatively new. It’s common for the mind to launder the past to demonize the present. Consider the women’s suffrage movement. There were some highly violent suffragettes that burned down buildings! They weren’t all peaceful angels!

Understanding ultimate causation and “the ends justifying the means” can be two separate issues. I would consider both to be important. 

[Arcangelo]

10 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

One person hit him with a skateboard.

If you watch the second by second video the guy with the SKB never attempts to him with his SKB what he tries to do is to snatch the AR-15 from Kyle's hands.

I watched the Kyle video hitting a girl. Talk about holding multiple perspectives man....

[Danioover9000]

@Arcangelo

50 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

If you watch the second by second video the guy with the SKB never attempts to him with his SKB what he tries to do is to snatch the AR-15 from Kyle's hands.

I watched the Kyle video hitting a girl. Talk about holding multiple perspectives man....

   I see why it does look like the SKB guy was hitting him, but I see he changes his mind late swing and goes for a disarm, which looks like a split second mistake. He should've gone all in on that swing downward, then disarm, not swing 50/50, slow down, change to maybe disarm, but no I'm dipping out. Too late mate.

   Side note, it's disappointing that swat and police officers just pass him by, without doing and immediate take down seeing he's armed. 

[Arcangelo]

It's because they were friends with him.

[Danioover9000]

@Arcangelo

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

It's because they were friends with him.

   The SKB guy or the police?

[Rajneeshpuram]

On 30/8/2020 at 8:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

The riots are stopped by police already.

Trump could certainly stop the protests by listening to them and putting forth a solution on police reform and increasing black rights.

Okey. Le's increase black rights to the same level as white people. Do you think the victim mentality that has been engrained for generations in the black community  will stop existing overnight? This is the real issue.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Rajneeshpuram

19 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

Okey. Le's increase black rights to the same level as white people. Do you think the victim mentality that has been engrained for generations in the black community  will stop existing overnight? This is the real issue.

 

   I think some scientists on eugenics did some tests on if it's possible of past generation's traumas or depressions to pass onto the next generation. If I'm not mistaken, they did that study on Jewish survivors of the holocaust and the families that came from those survivors. I definitely would say it's not gonna be an over night fix, like Rome wasn't built in one day.

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

I think some scientists on eugenics did some tests on if it's possible of past generation's traumas or depressions to pass onto the next generation. 

This is the emerging field of epigenetics. This field studies how environmental input can be alter gene expression, without changing DNA sequence. Studies have shown the effects of some environmental input can be passed on to the next generation. Yet this is still a young, emerging field and there is still a lot we don't know. 

[Raze]

Destiny debated Vaush on the shooting

 

 

[Lyubov]

Can you summarize Destiny's position because he was pretty straight forward in his argument for this being self defense from what little I heard it was pretty awful

[Gidiot]

On 8/29/2020 at 7:59 PM, Leo Gura said:

Of course whenever and wherever a large mob of people arises, some degree of devilry will be done. This is a law of human nature.

But also, when the political system is such that democracy isn't working well because one person one vote is corrupted, then mobs have no choice but to break out.

So the ultimate cause of these mobs is a lack of government responsiveness. If we had better leadership with more compassion, responsiveness, and vision, these mobs wouldn't be necessary and would self-dispurse.

Trump and the Republicans are fueling these mobs by twiddling their thumbs while they look the other way on many popular issues.

Republicans are refusing to take responsibility for these mobs. Instead they demonize them as that is far more convenient.

Yep, you can’t solve the problem until you admit you have one. Something trump has rarely seemed to acknowledge throughout corona and BLM. 
 

communities of vulnerability will always prevail over communities of strength in the long run.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Gidiot

[Gidiot]

victim mentality isn’t great but it’s a part of the problem, people who have victim mentality didn’t just wake up and make shit up, they were really victimized and sorry but 400 years of slavery isn’t something you get over quickly, maybe if you were like Buddha, but for the average person it’s traumatic. And until people really believe that society is fair, they will protest.  The best way to stop protests is to give people what they want, if it’s reasonable, I think BLM ain’t asking for anything unreasonable in fact I agree with a lot of their agenda, a lot of is stage green, sure there are toxic aspects to it, but would you really generalize the whole movement because of riots? Riots have always happened  this is America after all.

[Arcangelo]

IDK guys but if I was a BLACK man in The United States of America and a WHITE male police officer pulls out his gun and points it at me and yells: -''FREEZE, STOP RIGHT THERE!'' I would have stopped walking and I would have lifted my arms. He just kept walking to his vehicle, the police doesn't know what's in that vehicle. It's their job to assume the worse. It's their job to assume he is gonna pull out a weapon and try to kill them. People ask: -''WTF he had to shoot him 7 times?''

Because adrenaline. If you just get shot a couple of times you may have the chance to pull out a weapon from your vehicle and kill 3 cops.

That's my perspective. 

 

Why do you guys think Jacob got shot 7 times in the back? Police brutality? Systemic racism?

 

[Apparition of Jack]

58 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Why do you guys think Jacob got shot 7 times in the back? Police brutality? Systemic racism?

Police incompetence + systemic racism

Edited September 3, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

IDK guys but if I was a BLACK man . . .

That's my perspective. 

You are assuming police and the justice system have integrity and can be trusted, which is true from your perspective. Yet consider things from another perspective. Imagine living in a place where the police and justice system cannot be fully trusted. If you get into a run in with police, there is a real chance you will get abused and screwed over in the justice system - even if you’ve done nothing wrong and comply. In these situations, it’s probably best to comply, yet you don’t know for sure and evading / resisting police is an option on the table to consider.