Kenosha shooting

[Arcangelo]

So I saw the 7 minutes and 41 seconds video on Reddit. This is what I see: Angry mob some of them with sticks chasing a guy with a RIFFLE, one of the protestors throws something at him, guy with the riffle feels attacked, panics (just like anyone would) and fires, then he leaves the scene. Bigger angry mob chases guy WITH A FUCKING RIFFLE one of them with a hand gun. Guy with a Riffle falls and angry mob starts attacking him, he shoots again. Then he shoots to the ground to scare the rest of his attackers away.

Do you guys see the same thing? I am trying to be as objective as possible

 

Verdict: Not guilty. This is self defense.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Arcangelo

[Arcangelo]

More than 2 decades ago when I was 16-17 I was chased by an angry mob, I didn't have any weapons though. I ran and managed to escape. I have a scar on my back that reminds me of that day.

 

Arc

[Jennjenn]

He had already killed two people,  those people following him are actually being heroic and trying to stop him from killing even more people. They have no arms, he has a rifle, they’re trying to stop him, it’s a suicide mission. 

[Arcangelo]

22 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

He had already killed two people,  those people following him are actually being heroic and trying to stop him from killing even more people. They have no arms, he has a rifle, they’re trying to stop him, it’s a suicide mission. 

No. In the 7 minute and 41 second video I see him being chased by an angry mob with sticks, one of them throws something at him. They attacked him. He freaks out and deadly shoots the guy that threw something at him. Then he leaves the scene, then a bigger angry mob chases him, one of them with a hand gun. He trips and shoots the guy with a hand gun and kills another attacker.

You are saying that he killed other 2 guys before those 7 minutes and 41 seconds? Are you saying that he killed 4 persons total? Let's stick to the video on reddit please: https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/igxbxt/higher_quality_version_of_the_entire_sequence_of/

Did you watch the video?

[Jennjenn]

@Arcangelo I watched the video. 
There is really nothing I can say to you or anybody else that can’t see this as murder and terrorism, that is something they need to process in private with God or with a therapist. 
There is really NO point on rambling on and on until the post gets locked. 
Have a good night and may you and me find peace in our hearts. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Jennjenn

[Extreme Z7]

27 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

No. In the 7 minute and 41 second video I see him being chased by an angry mob with sticks, one of them throws something at him. They attacked him. He freaks out and deadly shoots the guy that threw something at him. Then he leaves the scene, then a bigger angry mob chases him, one of them with a hand gun. He trips and shoots the guy with a hand gun and kills another attacker.

You are saying that he killed other 2 guys before those 7 minutes and 41 seconds? Are you saying that he killed 4 persons total? Let's stick to the video on reddit please: https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/igxbxt/higher_quality_version_of_the_entire_sequence_of/

Did you watch the video?

Stop pretending that you can get all the facts from one video. There's almost always going to be other facts that can re-contextualize an event.

Don't forget that this was a 17yo. Being under-age while carrying a rifle alone is already a crime.

Police came across him earlier and did not immediately arrest a minor with a gun and expressed support for his "cause"
https://www.vox.com/2020/8/27/21404117/kenosha-kyle-rittenhouse-police-gun-populism

Stop framing this as an innocent guy randomly attacked by protesters out-of-the-blue. He was asking for trouble, either intentionally or not.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Extreme Z7

[Leo Gura]

I see a trigger-happy jackass teen playing macho vigilante near a serious protest, and naturally hell breaks loose.

This is why in a sane society one should not be allowed to open-carry assault rifles near large crowds of people.

The entire notion of these militia groups is absurd. State must have a monopoly on carrying firearms in the city streets and law enforcement.

Citizens cannot be allowed to do law enforcement. Especially angsty 17 year olds with a political agenda. Law enforcement is hard enough as it is for trained professionals.

[Arcangelo]

1 minute ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Stop pretending that you can get all the facts from one video.

Let's go by parts let's analyze THIS video first.

 

2 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

There's almost always going to be other facts that can re-contextualize an event.

OFC Lets's analyze this video first, then we can analyze the other videos that are from other angles. And the videos prior to this 7 minutes and 41 seconds. That's what lawyers are going to do to get to the bottom of this.

 

4 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Don't forget that this was a 17yo. Being under-age while carrying a rifle alone is already a crime.

OFC I totally agree.

 

4 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Police came across him earlier and did not immediately arrest a minor with a gun and expressed support for his "cause"

Irrelevant. Let's analyze this video first. IDK what happened earlier. I am talking about the video I gave a link to.

6 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Stop framing this as an innocent guy randomly attacked by protesters out-of-the-blue.

I am not framing shit. I am talking about what I saw on THAT  reddit video. Let's talk first about this video please.

 

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Do you guys see the same thing?

 

6 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

He was asking for trouble, either intentionally or not.

Absolutely.

[Extreme Z7]

2 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

I am not framing shit. I am talking about what I saw on THAT  reddit video. Let's talk first about this video please.

By insisting that we only talk about one video and ignore larger picture details, you are engaging in framing an event in a specific way that YOU want.

And personally, I don't want to have a conversation with that very limited framing. You are deliberately ignoring what I have to bring to the table.

[Arcangelo]

5 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

By insisting that we only talk about one video and ignore larger picture details, you are engaging in framing an event in a specific way that YOU want.

No, I am talking about a reddit video. Cold and objectively. Maybe you can start a thread and we can talk about another video. Any video. This is the video I am talking about. What do see in that video. The answer can be a simple yes or no.

Do you see what I see?

 

I do feel identified with the guy because it happened to me as well, and if I would have had a weapon I would have probably used it.

10 minutes ago, Extreme Z7 said:

You are deliberately ignoring what I have to bring to the table.

No. I totally agree with some of your views.

 

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I see a trigger-happy jackass teen playing macho vigilante near a serious protest, and naturally hell breaks loose.

True.

 

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why in a sane society one should not be allowed to open-carry assault rifles near large crowds of people.

I live in a society that is like that. If we carry it has to be concealed, and we don't allow automatic weapons. IDK about semi-automatic though. Actually we gotta carry the gun unloaded the bullets can not be inside the gun. Gun in one pocket bullets in another pocket, that's how it is over here.

 

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Citizens cannot be allowed to do law enforcement.

IDK I kinda agree with civilian arrests. However they are never civilized arrests. The way it normally goes is: civilians lynch the guy, and then they call the cops, once the guy is half dead. You got me thinking here: Civilian arrests are almost never civilized. I guess you are right, the punishment civilians provide is not in alignment with the crime.

 

Arc

[Arcangelo]

You are totally right Leo

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Citizens cannot be allowed to do law enforcement.

Stage red and orange are going to almost kill the guy when they do a civilian arrest. Stage blue, green and above are going to make a civilized arrest when they do a civilian arrest. But even then they might succumb to their shadows, and almost kill the guy even if they are blue, green and above.

 

[Zega]

Check liveleak for many different angles. The people chasing him that got him to the ground were doing so after he shot the first guy in the head. 

Bottom line is "self defense" is trying to justify a minor living out his police/call of duty day dreams at a protest caused by gun violence. Bad ideas. 

[Lyubov]

Gun control is demonstrably insane in the US. If the kid wasn't carrying a rifle no one would of died. I hope the charges brought against him are able to be argued in court properly so he can be convicted. Either way he is going to be lauded by the right as a 2nd amendment hero. This kid would of ended up becoming a police officer too. These type of people are the bulk of the people who go into law enforcement as a career. 

[Arcangelo]

30 minutes ago, Zega said:

The people chasing him that got him to the ground were doing so after he shot the first guy in the head. 

I know, I saw the video. The first guy throws something at him, he feels his life is being threatened and fires his fire arm. You did see the other guys with sticks right? I know what it feels to be chased by an angry mob. First they chase you, once they are close they attack you. What was he supposed to do? Let them kill/injury him?  If he would have had proper training he could have shot the guy in the balls, so the guy doesn't die, but he shot him in the head. Did he shoot him in the head intentionally? none of us know. I think he just shot, and it was deadly.

[Arcangelo]

19 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I hope the charges brought against him are able to be argued in court properly so he can be convicted.

I hope he serves a small sentence for carrying an assault riffle over the interstate lines. That's the only thing he is guilty of from my POV.

Some of you guys are framing it like he wasn't being chased by an angry mob. Some of you guys are framing it like someone throws a plastic bag or whatever and he kills the guy. That's not what I see in the video. I see the guy being chased by several individuals who are crazy/stupid enough to threaten his life even though he is the only one with a fire arm at that point.

That's my perspective. 

[Leo Gura]

@Arcangelo When you are carrying a rifle against unarmed people, shooting in the air or ground will be more than enough to spook them off.

[Arcangelo]

^Yeah, absolutely. I got carried away. He got carried away too. He could have shot at the ground or the sky and yell at them: -''This is a lethal weapon, stay the fuck away from me.''

When I was chased by an angry mob, I was part of the angry mob. We were chasing some robbers, but me and my friend went too far ahead and the rest of the angry mob thought that we were the robbers, and attacked us. I had to run for my life. I was an underage teenager drinking alcohol on the street. Like him I should have stayed home playing video games.

Fuck man this is so sad.

Thank you, bye.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Arcangelo said:

I hope he serves a small sentence for carrying an assault riffle over the interstate lines. That's the only thing he is guilty of from my POV.

Some of you guys are framing it like he wasn't being chased by an angry mob. Some of you guys are framing it like someone throws a plastic bag or whatever and he kills the guy. That's not what I see in the video. I see the guy being chased by several individuals who are crazy/stupid enough to threaten his life even though he is the only one with a fire arm at that point.

That's my perspective. 

You don't get to put yourself into a position where you kill someone for retaliating against you for being aggressive in the first place. That is not what stand your ground/defense laws are intended for. I'm pretty sure we have laws such as reckless use of a firearm and reckless murder with a firearm which cover the crimes he broke. He is having state laws as well as federal brought against him. The kid is a radical and this is by no means a cut and dry stand your ground case. Although I'm sure the jury will manage to let him off on some stuff he is guilty of.

[Tetcher]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Arcangelo When you are carrying a rifle against unarmed people, shooting in the air or ground will be more than enough to spook them off.

If you were speaking the truth then why after he shot and missed the first guy, shot and hit the second guy the third guy still tried to jump on him?

Life is not always as theoretical as you think it is from the comfort of your chair, the shooter fell while being chased by an angry mob and had to defend himself, he didn't control the situation like some kind of god, he didn't know the situation would evolve like that when he decided to come there, his decision making happened as the situation unfolded.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

If you were speaking the truth then why after he shot and missed the first guy, shot and hit the second guy the third guy still tried to jump on him?

Life is not always as theoretical as you think it is from the comfort of your chair, the shooter fell while being chased by an angry mob and had to defend himself, he didn't control the situation like some kind of god, he didn't know the situation would evolve like that when he decided to come there, his decision making happened as the situation unfolded.

Well, that's why we have a court system. That's for the court to adjudicate all those details. There seems to be plenty of video so we'll see how it all plays out in court. Both sides will get to present their evidence.

Once you start shooting people, the others may feel little option but to bum-rush the shooter.

Of course it is possible the mob was being aggressive. I dunno. These situations tend to be messy.