Medication vs talk therapy

[bejapuskas]

Hey everyone, I know there is some solid evidence against using medication in certain cases, but also I guess talk therapy cannot help all problems, right. I am trying to make my mind around this, but I only have heard it from the therapist's perspective, so I am curious about your experience  How has psychiatric medication helped you? How has it not helped you?

[Rilles]

Talk therapy, all the way. Has helped me enormously, been doing it for 4 months, but having some meditation as background helps alot. Medication puts a bandaid on the problem and can you make easily addicted. I would only recommend meds in very very rare cases as in crippling depression.

ps. Not medical advice. 

[DrewNows]

@bejapuskas talk therapy is actually a form of self hypnosis while working with another. Medication is a good way to alter our brain chemistry or whatever physical ailment we may be enduring, but it's a suppressant, meaning it will never get to the root of the problem 

[bejapuskas]

@Rilles  How exactly has it helped you? I mean, people go into therapy for various reasons, right. Don't worry I am not seeking any therapy at the moment so anything you say I just look at  

@DrewNows What do you actually mean by self-hypnosis, could you elaborate?

[DrewNows]

2 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@DrewNows What do you actually mean by self-hypnosis, could you elaborate?

In my understanding of the mind, it runs on programs, to form new habits and what not, we have to train our minds to function in the specific way. Notice how as we get older it gets harder and harder to change the patterns of thinking and behaving? In my opinion this is due to the loss of elasticity from dehydration/aging process, so neurons are not so easy to activate. Anyways to be hypnotized we must become receptive to new information (downloads) while in a beta or theta brain frequency. All of which has to do with the change in beliefs resulting in the adjustments to energy patterns throughout the body. 

[Roy]

If tests show your body critically needs it then I don't think it's a problem to take medication, there just has to be timed plan to eventually get off or transition. As well as pair it with other healing methods.

But yea talk therapy all the way. I've never taken anything for my depression and never will when talk therapy and personal development do so much more for far less.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Roy

[Max_V]

@bejapuskas Mhh.. very coincidental post, as I’m about to go to an appointment with a psychiatrist to discuss the potential benefits of medication in helping work through social anxiety and depression.

Honestly, I’ve always been really closed off to them since I feel like there is no point in altering my state of consciousness if it doesn’t really fix anything. But I guess remaining open is a wise thing to do.

Let’s see.. 

[Rilles]

9 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Rilles  How exactly has it helped you? I mean, people go into therapy for various reasons, right. Don't worry I am not seeking any therapy at the moment so anything you say I just look at  

Went in for social anxiety, talked alot and got my thought-patterns challenged by the therapist, did some CBT on myself. I feel that Im about 75% "healed", whatever that means, pretty damn amazing. Used to very on guard in public and social situations, now Im way more relaxed. 

In general I feel like all Ive done is become aware of my patterns... Thats all... Awareness is curative... But I needed some help to see what those patterns were. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Rilles

[bejapuskas]

@DrewNows  I see, I don't know the science behind this, but definitely makes sense.

@Roy  I get confused when my friends with major depression tell me they can't do anything about their condition without medication, what is your experience? It probably can be like a critical condition but also victim mindset probably many times, right?

@Max_V  Tell me how it went  Yeh I have a similar experience to what you are describing, even with psychedelics and maybe other things that alter your state. This state is good.

@Rilles  I see, glad you are better now. Do you think medication would decrease your ability to be aware or does it not work that way?

[Farnaby]

@bejapuskas hi! I'm a mental health professional and not a big fan of medication at all. 

However, I think in some situations it is beneficial and can even be necessary. Some examples would be:

- your anxiety is so high that most of your time is spent ruminating, having intrusive thoughts, getting frequent panic attacks, being hypervigilant. 

- you have a lot of trouble finding any motivation or feeling pleasure at all, which makes it very difficult to do anything at all.

- you are so depressed, anxious or dissociated that you can't focus, listen, etc. 

- you have intense cravings because of some addiction. 

These are some that come to mind, but there are more (like psychosis). In general, if your symptoms make it very difficult to function in life, medication can be very useful. 

It's actually proven that medication + therapy outperforms other modalities (especially medication on it's own but also therapy on it's own). 

I would keep an open mind, because not all medications nowadays have such detrimental effects like the ones portrayed in movies or by people who are against medication. 

However, I also agree that it's mostly only a bandaid to make you receptive enough to therapy and in most cases the plan should be to get off of it as soon as possible. 

[Rilles]

14 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

I see, glad you are better now. Do you think medication would decrease your ability to be aware or does it not work that way?

I dont know, I just want a solution that lasts beyond the substance in my bloodstream.  I believe moooost people have the ability to solve even their deepest problems by awareness and self-reflection... and tons of patience... It may take you a year to even start feeling a tiny bit better... Is that worth it? 

[bejapuskas]

@Farnaby  Thank you so much for your detailed response. I guess also kids have different brain than adults so we shouldn't treat them the same, right.

@Rilles  

[Roy]

5 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

I get confused when my friends with major depression tell me they can't do anything about their condition without medication, what is your experience? It probably can be like a critical condition but also victim mindset probably many times, right?

What I most likely have is dysthymia. Which is kind of a chronic low grade depression that can dip low once in a while, but it can mostly be talked through and rationed out of, as a lot of it is just bad logic and some victim pathology like you mentioned.

I'm physically healthy and don't really have any chemical imbalances, though I'm sure some SSRI's would give me a boost. I can function pretty well without them though and can put up with it.

It might be with your friends that their brains need the medication because of a clinical diagnosis of chemical imbalances. If they are so sick that it is making it impossible to function in daily life like going to school or holding a job down it's probably a good idea to take something to provide a baseline stability, then they have their energy freed up on doing to the next steps to get better.

This probably isn't the best analogy but think of it like having a hurt leg. They might be able to push through the pain and technically "walk", but it's probably best they use crutches for a while. Except in this case instead of physically being unable to walk, it's neurologically.

I think there is a tendency in spiritual communities to backlash and demonize Western medicine instinctively because it becomes a lot easier to spot it flaws as you learn about the alternatives. Of course there is corruption among companies that sell dangerously powerful medication or overcharge people, but a lot of it exists for a reason and gets rigorously tested so you know it works.

Just maintain that skepticism to carefully pick out what will work and couple it with trying alternative medicine as well. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Roy

[bejapuskas]

@Roy  Thank you, this really helps.