Rising - Getting Worse and Worse

[Leo Gura]

My opinion of this Rising show has been getting lower and lower. Just wanted to alert you guys who watch it to be careful as it's starting to turn into distortion and propaganda while posturing as progress.

All these Rising hosts do is bash whatever mainstream media says, even if mainstream media makes valid points. This blind anti-mainstream, anti-"elitist" ideology is gonna become a worse cure than the disease.

I get the sense at a lot of folks are YT will fall for this new anti-"elitist" ideology without recognizing it as ideology.

While Sagaar is no Nazi, he's still getting trapped in ideology of a new sort. And Krystal is too.

Hope you guys are wise enough to see through the game.

 

[Kailash Bhattarai]

@Leo Gura for sure rising is getting worse and worse. BTW you were thinking of going on the Majority Report. How's that going on?

[Lyubov]

The well was poisoned long ago when it comes to discourse about the honesty of mainstream media. At this point it is a culture/ideology war and you're going to have to just overlook people parroting dumb stuff. They aren't even worth having a conversation with at this point.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Lyubov

[Aimblack]

Yea I drifted away after they started emphasizing the anti-woke stuff. For me that is always a red flag.

[Epikur]

It feels like their project was to make politics boring so the establishment has a peace of mind. Maybe that is not the worst thing. Who would trust the citizens ?

[Carl-Richard]

Rising? More like descending hehe

 

Yes, I'll leave.

[Gidiot]

They definitely aren’t fascists but vaush makes a good point that krystal is a progressive but never praises anything the dems do even though they are right on a couple things. It is starting to see like an ideology, it was great last year when she liked yang and Bernie and tulsi but now it seems like she moved a bit right

[Leo Gura]

Their takes are just so predictable. Every episode is just another wack at how the mainstream media is exaggerating the problem of Trump while being elitist and establishment.

YES! Mainstream media is pro-status quo. YES! Mainstream pundits are not socialists or bleeding heart hippies. So what?? It's time to move on to deeper analysis.

And the constantly false equivalency of Trump and establishment Dems is just absurd and plays right into his hands.

I don't doubt that people watching Rising end up voting for Trump or not voting at all. And Krystal is responsible for that.

It's the same problem as Jimmy Dore. They criticize Dems more than Trump just to be more "woke" than the mainstream media, the effect of which is giving Trump more votes.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura recently,  i have lost both my faith and patience from this show. Honestly, when i started watching it, i felt so good! I mean they were pointing out things that are missing in mainstream media, bringing populist left and right in one table and discussing what they want. But now, this show is descending into ideological cynicism and madness in my opinion.

Firstly, people like krystal and kyle kulinski from the secular talk are either ideological blind or simply crazy and i am convinced about it. They spend way more time on criticizing corporate dems than trump and the Republicans. Even if they criticize trump, they kinda take "softer" approach and try to create equivalency between trump and corporate dems and biden which is just pathetic to hear. Yes, corporate dems and biden are no angel. But trump is definitely much much more harmful than them.  Both kyle and krystal are reluctant and lazy to strongly present that point. For that reason,  I think a lot of people who listens to be them are are not gonna vote in 2020 who would have most likely voted for biden otherwise. By doing this, both krystal and kyle are indirectly helping trump.

Secondly, they like to say how corporate dems shame them for not supporting or voting for them. They say they are not dems and they are independents. My point is, if you are independent, why do you register as democrat and run in democratic primaries? If you claim not to be a democrat, then run as an independent or form another party. You run  as a democrat and when you loose , suddenly you become an independent - it is just hypocrisy. 

Lastly, I think sam seders majority report and TYT is much more mature and evolved progressive channel than rising and secular talk. Rising and secular talk are hurting more than benefiting progressives.   

Sometimes i feel like krystal and kyle secretly want trump to get reelected so that they can bash corporate dems and advance their ideological or whatever agenda.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

Lastly, I think sam seders majority report and TYT is much more mature and evolved progressive channel than rising and secular talk. Rising and secular talk are hurting more than benefiting progressives.   

Sometimes i feel like this krystal and kyle secretly wants trump to get reelected so that they can bash corporate dems and advance their ideological or whatever agenda.

That is the the problem with idealists and ideological puritans. They get so smug off their own moral righteousness that they lose sense of the pragmatic aspects of politics.

The reality is that most Americans are simply not as progressive as Krystal and Kyle think they are. It would be nice if Krystal and Kyle woke up to that reality. Then they would stop smearing the more centrist Dems.

Most voters are centrist. Which means in a democracy that centrists will win lots of elections and hold lots of power. So constantly rail against this reality is rather silly. They might as well be railing against water being wet.

[Annoynymous]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reality is that most Americans are simply not as progressive as Krystal and Kyle think they are

@Leo Gura they are not as progressive as they think. Being progressive means you are more conscious. Their version of progressivism includes immaturity and stupidity instead of pragmatism. That is why they blindly try to hurt those who might help the progressive cause and help those like trump who WILL hurt progressive cause.

They are actually hurting chances of  progress in a sense.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Apparition of Jack]

@Annoynymous @Leo Gura Here's a more cynical take - both Kyle and Krystal are upset that their candidate (Bernie) didn't get the nomination, and so in order to maintain some semblance of authority they want to "punish" corporate Dems and ensure a Trump victory.

Basically, when Bernie was leading in the primaries they could "smell victory" so to speak and became convinced that Bernie was going to be the nom. However, when centrists coalesced around Biden all those hope and dreams were taken away from them, and now all they have is bitterness and resentment for the establishment, rather than taking the realistic approach and working with the establishment to get their ideas passed.

I see similar things happening with some (not all) leftists on Twitter. They want to hold onto some semblance of power and so equate the Dems with the Republicans and claim that not voting is some principled ideological stance, rather than the self-biased desire for power that I think it is.

This is mostly happening unconsciously too, I doubt any of these people are aware they're doing this. This is just something I've observed.

[Annoynymous]

@Apparition of Jack i kinda agree with you.

When bernie got the momentum  and won early in some state primaries, kyle, krystal and cenk uyghur from tyt got very excited about bernie winning the nomination, which was in my opinion, very unrealistic even then.

I remember before super tuesday, i was calculating how much vote centrist dems hold according to polls. I calculated that centrist candidates like pete+biden+amy klobuchar+kamala together had around 55-60 percent and bernie+warren had around 40-45. I was  wondering if centrists coalesce,  they will easily win.

After that the did coalesce before super tuesday and biden got landslide. On the other hand, bernie and warren could not even get together.

My point is, how could kyle, krystal and cenk miss that huge point? The first two think that they are denied their victory and they are rigged. I also find this narrative very naive and stupid. Coalescing is not illegal, in fact i think it is a smart move which progressive candidates couldn't do among themselves. 

So yeah, it maybe possible that Kyle and krystal still licking from their wounds. I don't know about Cenk as I don't watch tyt regularly.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

they want to "punish" corporate Dems and ensure a Trump victory.

I wouldn't go that far. I don't think Kyle wants a Trump victory. At least I give him that benefit of the doubt.

Now Sagaar seems like he will be voting for Trump, which to me nullifies anything coming out of his mouth. Anyone who preaches populism but then votes for Trump is a fool not to be taken seriously.

Trump is the perfect litmus test. If someone is voting for Trump in 2020, that's how you know exactly the kind of person they are. Which how we suss out folks like Tim Pool. We know exactly the kind of guy he is.

[Joel3102]

they’re unable to actually criticise Trump without it being a roundabout criticism or the Dems/media

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Trump is the perfect litmus test. If someone is voting for Trump in 2020, that's how you know exactly the kind of person they are. Which how we suss out folks like Tim Pool. We know exactly the kind of guy he is.

How would you consider a leftist that would have voted for Bernie, yet is now voting green party?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

they’re unable to actually criticise Trump without it being a roundabout criticism or the Dems/media

Rising's problem is that they have created a brand/identity out of being contrarian, so now almost by definition they have to do the opposite of the mainstream media, even if the mainstream media says something valid.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

How would you consider a leftist that would have voted for Bernie, yet is now voting green party?

I look upon that more kindly.

I think they are being foolish and utopian, but I get it. People like that tend to be less pragmatic or savvy about how power works.

But to actively vote for Trump in 2020 is today's analog of re-electing Hitler. Public people who do that should have their names recorded in the history books' hall of shame.

I can forgive a guy for voting for Trump back in 2016 as they were unaware of what Trump was capable of. But now in 2020??? Now it's just getting farcical.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I wouldn't go that far. I don't think Kyle wants a Trump victory. At least I give him that benefit of the doubt.

Not consciously, no, but I feel like subconsciously there's even just a little voice saying to him "Wouldn't it be great if Trump won just to see the corporate Dems squirm?" Not enough to actually make him vote for Trump, but enough to make him consider abstaining from voting for Biden due to his inner resentment.

Of course the question comes to whether he's developed enough to ignore this voice or not when the election comes. I actually think as the election draws nearer and the gravity of the situation mounts (causing a raise in consciousness) he'll be forced to evaluate and eventually come around to supporting Biden in the election. Krystal too, but it's less likely with her.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

"Wouldn't it be great if Trump won just to see the corporate Dems squirm?"

Jimmy Dore has that view for sure. Which is why I don't like his show.

It's so clever it's dumb. Even Zizek has admitted that Trump winning in 2020 is not going be a net win for the radical socialists. Zizek bought the idea that Trump was necessary in 2016 in order to send a message to the establishment. But he sees now that Trump is too dangerous to risk sending such "messages". It's like playing a game of chicken.

I think Kyle will vote for Biden after all his huffing and puffing and posturing. Krystal probably not.