How to find the now-self and point to it with words

[Dodo]

This is not for anyone advanced but perhaps for those who are confused a bit about what this awareness "thing" is and where it resides. In any case I think this contemplation brings a certain clarity and helps with self inquiry. To be honest, they do say that having a beginner's mindset is very important, so perhaps this is for everyone. 

We all know we are humans in time, with different stories and whatnot.. With past and future. A materialist might say this. I agree from one perspective that is the case. But ok now, that's not interesting, let's go into another dimension now, rather than the horizontal dimension of time. Lets go further and deeper into this moment right now, the vertical dimension, to see what we actually are at this moment and not what we are in the story of time.

Here, now, we can see that there are different sensations, perceptions, feelings, thoughts, sounds, sights, etc etc... All subjective objects of experience. 

All of those different objects have something in common, right? They might be completely different - sound and thought,  sight and touch.. But they are all happening to you, correct? All happening in the field of your awareness,  otherwise you wouldn't know about them, So the common thing in all objects of experience is you. You are that unifying thing. What could this be? 

Inquiring into that self which unifies all objects of experience now is what true self inquiry is. If you are doing self inquiry,  but at the same time look at yourself as the human in time, your self inquiry will yield wrong results, since all stories and all time are just another one of those subjective objects that appear to you (as the unifying awareness) Now. 

Not sure this makes sense to others but I see in this a lot of clarity and I was able to get my friend who is fanatical about time and very egoic to see for the first time that I am not talking just crap when I speak about the true self, but there is really something interesting there to investigate. It was a real breakthrough, so it might help someone else who is stuck also. 

Ps: I noticed that acknowledging his worldview is correct in one perspective helped for him to be open to entertain something else. Perhaps this thread can also be about how best to share and present nonduality to people who are worshipping duality and wouldn't even hear it.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

We all know we are humans in time, with different stories and whatnot.. With past and future. 

Time is not three dimensional (past - present - future)..so there is no year that comes and year that goes. It's just one present moment with ever-changing content.  Just like a static TV screen with constantly changing images (pixels).. The screen (present moment) never changes yet the content is constantly changing.   

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Time is not three dimensional (past - present - future)..so there is no year that comes and year that goes. It's just one present moment with ever-changing content.  Just like a static TV screen with constantly changing images (pixels).. The screen (present moment) never changes yet the content is constantly changing.   

Obviously bro, but this post is for those who find it harder to find the present moment and live in the belief that time goes from past to present and goes towards a future. Or for those who might feel confused a bit.

This acknowledgement of the relative time-bound self (the human) is imo very important in order to be able to speak with someone who is stuck in that paradigm. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Someone here]

@Dodo I get you. And nice post btw. Just thought I would add that note 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Dodo said:

This acknowledgement of the relative time-bound self (the human) is imo very important in order to be able to speak with someone who is stuck in that paradigm. 

Well it's really not.  Just go directly. There is no such thing.   It's always NOW and there is nothing else. Where is the future or the past?  Can you point to it? Can you grasp it with your hands? 

All the future (or past) really is.. Is just an idea that is happening in the NOW about something that is not happening in the NOW!! 

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well it's really not.  Just go directly. There is no such thing.   It's always NOW and there is nothing else. Where is the future or the past?  Can you point to it? Can you grasp it with your hands? 

All the future (or past) really is.. Is just an idea that is happening in the NOW about something that is not happening in the NOW!! 

Well you gotta speak with my friend who is in stage red and we've had countless discussions and he really believes in time, no matter how much I say things similar to what you're saying here. You don't have to tell me about the Now, I am clearly on the same page  But if you have to talk with someone who believes in time, then they will think you're an idiot and will not really follow your pointings. That's why last night for the first time I was able to point out to my friend this space that connects all experience. First I had to acknowledge his worldview is "correct" from one point of view, but lets just go deeper into what is here now, rather than that time-bound self that has a story. 

[Dodo]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well it's really not.  Just go directly. There is no such thing.   It's always NOW and there is nothing else. Where is the future or the past?  Can you point to it? Can you grasp it with your hands? 

All the future (or past) really is.. Is just an idea that is happening in the NOW about something that is not happening in the NOW!! 

Also I dont think it's very balanced if we push the present moment as a hard fact, because i've done it just like you're doing, but this looks from the side to be a bit arrogant. Some people don't take direct experience to be the highest form of evidence like you and me perhaps. Some value their beliefs more than direct experience.  

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Someone here]

@Dodo well really look at how hilarious this is.. If he asks you where is this "Eternal now".. Tell him "you idiot.. Where is this fucking past and future you believe in.?  The now is right in front of you.. Now You tell me where is your past and future"?? Lol 

And ofcourse he will confuse the content of the now (which is endlessly changing) with the now itself which never changes.  The only unchanging thing is changing.. It goes full circle. Change is changless as change. 

[Dodo]

Just now, Someone here said:

@Dodo well really look at how hilarious this is.. If he asks you where is this "Eternal now".. Tell him "you idiot.. Where is this fucking past and future you believe in.?  The now is right in front of you.. Now You tell me where is your past and future"?? Lol 

And ofcourse he will confuse the content of the now (which is endlessly changing) with the now itself which never changes.  The only unchanging thing is changing.. It goes full circle. Change is changless as change. 

Yeah one time he was thinking in his mind about something in the past, then when he "came back" he said - Sorry, I was in the past. I told him no bro, you are in the present and a thought about past appeared now. But he would say that he is never in the present, because he's always thinking about past and future. 

Then I asked him "BRO! Are you here or not right now??"  

He said something like "Yes, but when I say something it's already in the past" bla bla  just mind doing its thing. He is saying time is everything and ego is very important. Then I tell him "OFcourse ego is very important, that's because your ego is saying it  " 

[Someone here]

Also the trick is in thoughts and thoughtlessness. Past and future only exist in thoughts. If you don't think then they don't exist.  

Edited August 25, 2020 by Someone here

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Also the trick is in thoughts and thoughtlessness. Past anf future only exist in thoughts. If you don't think then they don't exist.  

I'm absolutely with this, it's like you are me talking to me. I do talk to him a lot about these stuff, but have seen that I have been too narrow as well in my way of expressing this. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Dodo]

@Someone here  I think you need to find someone stage red to push your buttons a bit like this guy did, cause we still have a spiritual ego and since we strongly see the present moment as something ultimate and true, I get really triggered when someone challenges that "ultimate" point of view. I'm learning now to be able to hold two opposing points of view (such as time and timeless) as both true at the same time.

Because the illusion of time is an illusion doesn't mean illusions are not real in their own way.   

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I'm absolutely with this, it's like you are me talking to me. I do talk to him a lot about these stuff, but have seen that I have been too narrow as well in my way of expressing this. 

It's ok lol.  You don't have to convince him of anything.  Even his belief that he is not in the now is happening in the now..whether he is aware of it or not . Because he is the now.. All else are thoughts playing with themselves doing their life purpose . Let them 

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's ok lol.  You don't have to convince him of anything.  Even his belief that he is not in the now is happening in the now..whether he is aware of it or not . Because he is the now.. All else are thoughts playing with themselves doing their life purpose . Let them 

But he's also saying "And so what?" "Why is this important? What have you achieved?" etc etc  like because he's seeing it from the ego perspective, he is immediately looking for what has your ego gotten out of this present moment shite  

He;s telling me that I can believe anything I want and he has his own beliefs. When I tell him I am not believing this because there is evidence in direct experience so I know it, I don't believe it. I tell him that I don't like beliefs, because belief means you admit you don't know. But since I am doing jnana yoga (of knowledge) and I am after the Truth, not after the Belief, this is not just my point of view, but the ultimate. 
 

But this just prompts him to make his belief bigger because now he wants to match my certainty of the present moment and make his beliefs just as big if not bigger. Because thats what ego does. Wants to be the highest in the room. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

But he's also saying "And so what?" "Why is this important? What have you achieved?" etc etc  like because he's seeing it from the ego perspective, he is immediately looking for what has your ego gotten out of this present moment shite  

Well everything you can ever get is in the present moment or non at all. You can't get something in the future because it doesn't existssssss(with osho voice lol)....And since the present moment itself  is always shaking like a jelly.. You can't get anything from it either.. So you can't get anything from anything.. To exist means that nothing important is waiting you.   Good luck.   

Ps. Now at this point he will be no longer your friend so you don't have to worry about it lol. 

[peachboy]

@Dodo

Ask your friend if first-party un-consciousness is logically possible.

If first-party unconsciousness is not logically possible, then what remains? And is it not Eternal?

[Dodo]

21 minutes ago, peachboy said:

@Dodo

Ask your friend if first-party un-consciousness is logically possible.

If first-party unconsciousness is not logically possible, then what remains? And is it not Eternal?

Yeah but to be honest logic is not necessarily correct always. Only a sith deals in absolutes ? so I'm learning to ease up on that ultimate truth thing, cause this attitude can put people off the truth, since if I present it in an annoying way which denies their deeply held beliefs, they will run away from it, cause they don't want to give me the satisfaction of being right.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dodo

[Nahm]

@Dodo

Great (op) insight on self inquiry. The student has become the teacher.  (So to speak)