How Important is Politeness?

[Raphael]

Hello everyone, I have a few questions about politeness:

• How Important is Politeness?
• Should we always be polite? Should we always use politeness formulas?
• Should we use "bad" words?
• When is it appropriate to be polite and appropriate to not be polite?
• How to be direct, say the truth, and be respectful at the same time? Should we do it?
• Where is the balance?

[ColeMC01]

@Raphael Great question. As a person that is considered very polite by most of society i think i can give you some viable thoughts.

First of all, politeness is a multiplier factor if done properly. It will not give you results by itself but it can built on a good existing personality. It is the ice on the cake, not the cake itself. I think basic politeness is very important for all of us to practice but i do not like fake politeness. It should come from within and developing basic respect and love for people and life can help. For women politeness is useless, can even hurt you a bit so do not expect it to get you laid or help you to. Regarding friends, it is a nice bonus. Regarding formal interactions it is quite important. The balance is to be polite but honest. Honesty should come before politeness. However, there is a difference between ruthless honesty and positive kind honesty. I think the latter is better and more polite. So in general i think politeness is good when combined with honesty and done from within, not because society says so.

[Roy]

3 hours ago, Raphael said:

How Important is Politeness?

Moderately important. It communicates a basic level of respect for others.

3 hours ago, Raphael said:

Should we always be polite? Should we always use politeness formulas?

Make an effort, but don't let people walk over you either.

3 hours ago, Raphael said:

Should we use "bad" words?

Only when it's hilariously suiting to the situation.

3 hours ago, Raphael said:

When is it appropriate to be polite and appropriate to not be polite?

It isn't appropriate to be polite when you're talking about something really serious.

3 hours ago, Raphael said:

How to be direct, say the truth, and be respectful at the same time? Should we do it?

Preface something assertive you're about to say with something like, "I understand but".

Edited August 23, 2020 by Roy

[Raphael]

@ColeMC01 @Roy

Thank you guys.

I used to communicate a lot like Leo, being super direct and add some vulgarity to it. It created more harm than good for everyone including myself as it would come back to my face. This kind of communication is fine for me, but I see that most people cannot handle it. It's also tiring to fight with people because of words that I say rather than discussing the ideas. So I want to simplify my communication as much as I can.

[Raphael]

11 hours ago, ColeMC01 said:

I think basic politeness is very important for all of us to practice but i do not like fake politeness. It should come from within and developing basic respect and love for people and life can help.

I also feel like being too polite is a way to manipulate people, it seems inauthentic for me to be super polite 100% of the time.

11 hours ago, ColeMC01 said:

Regarding friends, it is a nice bonus. Regarding formal interactions it is quite important. The balance is to be polite but honest. Honesty should come before politeness. However, there is a difference between ruthless honesty and positive kind honesty. I think the latter is better and more polite. So in general i think politeness is good when combined with honesty and done from within, not because society says so.

Super insightful, thank you. I used to practice ruthless honesty most of my life, but I think I did it because I wanted to confront people.

[Raphael]

11 hours ago, Roy said:

Make an effort, but don't let people walk over you either.

Ok. But I had cases where I would ask for something in a normal way, but people would get reactive just because I would forget to say "please". For example, one day I asked someone: "Can you open the other door when you'll be inside?". The person responded "PLEASE???" in an aggressive manner. I find it annoying to be so obsessed with politeness, it makes me want to be less polite and don't use politeness formulas at all.

11 hours ago, Roy said:

It isn't appropriate to be polite when you're talking about something really serious.

Isn't it the opposite?

[Roy]

9 hours ago, Raphael said:

Isn't it the opposite?

When the stakes are high you have to be blunt. You can't baby people through something by being extra nice and polite, because it might take away from the magnitude of the situation.

The easiest example is work, supervisors and bosses have to be direct sometimes while not seeming too nice. Otherwise the employees slack off. If they are too polite about it the employees will think they are a pushover and won't listen.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Roy

[Gesundheit]

One strategy will not be enough to make good results. However, there's one good strategy that will guide you very well throughout everything, and it's being present, or in other words higher consciousness. If you can be present in real time, that'll answer most of your questions. It will only be a matter of time until you know what to do in every situation and later on your subconscious mind will handle all that for you. Awareness in the present moment is the most crucial thing you have to cultivate.

[Raphael]

On 8/24/2020 at 5:36 PM, Roy said:

When the stakes are high you have to be blunt. You can't baby people through something by being extra nice and polite, because it might take away from the magnitude of the situation.

The easiest example is work, supervisors and bosses have to be direct sometimes while not seeming too nice. Otherwise the employees slack off. If they are too polite about it the employees will think they are a pushover and won't listen.

It looks like for me it only works and is necessary when people are at low levels of consciousness, otherwise, it would not be necessary. I see the validity in this situation.

[Ya know]

Yo interesting thread man, definitely a lot of interpretations. 

How Important is Politeness?

Contextual - what is your value system? In terms for maintaining harmony it's incredibly important. In establishing acquaintances it's useful, but there are other things that are more important to acquiring friendships. Mainly status and what VALUE you offer the other person.

For example - the best player in a basketball team doesn't need to be polite to get respect or admiration (Kobe Bryant), and in some ways having politeness above other values (like winning) is detrimental to that situation.

In social settings - someone who's consistently funny has more value than someone who is just ''nice'' or polite. Laughter (depending on the individual) is considered more valuable because it's a skill, whereas manners can be taught.

Not to say politeness is without value. Being kind, considerate and compassionate are valuable skills that come under the umbrella of love. A majority of the time it's used as a tool of manipulation without unconditional acceptance, rather it's conditional in order to get something out of someone (Sex, money, validation). When people sense it's ulterior motive it becomes utterly unimportant and see through.  

Should we always be polite? Should we always use politeness formulas?

No such thing as should. Do you choose to be polite? If so why? Are you coming from a place of love for all things? Or neediness, desire to appease those you believe are above you, for validation to prop up low self esteem?

Find out your why, then you can determine if the behavior is worth pursuing. It's not the thing, it's the place it comes from.

Should we use "bad" words?

Cursing? No such thing as shoulds. Why are you cursing? To make an emphatic point that will further an agenda? What's the agenda? Are you trying to make another person laugh? Are you insulting someone? Context is everything. No blanket rules. There are no facts, only interpretations. 

When is it appropriate to be polite and appropriate to not be polite?

I suggest reading Confucius's analects which elaborate on ''right action'' which is what you are looking for, essentially a how to for morals. Personally I use intuition and my own value systems to conduct myself, which I believe is superior to re enacting an others doctrine. 

How to be direct, say the truth, and be respectful at the same time? Should we do it?

It's possible, but if you go through your life trying to appease everyone you appease no one. Stand for what you believe in without being overly patronzing, arrogant and respectful of others views and you will be okay. Don't take responsibility for someone elses emotional state. There are plenty of people who seek to get offended - don't bother trying to accommodate them, you wont win. Send them love and live your life. Don't cast pearls before swine. 

Where is the balance?

How long is a piece of string? Where is the beginning and the end? Open ended questions that require parameters to answer. Listen to your heart. 

[bejapuskas]

@Raphael  I have this experience with trying to learn Japanese and interacting with Japanese people. As you might know, they have a very different social structure (age, status, race etc...), different levels of politeness, exotic manners and the list goes on, it is quite hard to get used to it. You might see this pattern in many facets of east Asian culture, for example zen temples making it hard for new members to join them, sushi shefs having to go through years of monotone rigorous training...

I think in many cases this is coming from an insecure and rather unhealthy mindset, but it can also teach you an important life lesson if you look at it as a metaphor. All these practices, including the language, zen meditation or preparing food can seem very hard to get into and even harder to get good at, but once you understand the principles, you will realize that they have a tremendous value in that they destroy your pride. 

You can totally transcend this, but first look at - what am I trying to do not being polite with people? (maybe you are trying to impose something on them, catch attention or call for help indirectly, explore that) When does it feel good to say bad words and when does it feel like complaining and underestimating myself? What are truthful words, what does telling the truth even mean? What do I want to communicate with my words? What is balance, is it one universal pattern in an activity that is the mixture of some exact percentages of individual actions, or is it a mixture of diverse actions that come from a highly developed place of groundedness in experience and self-understanding?

[Raphael]

On 8/26/2020 at 0:39 PM, bejapuskas said:

what am I trying to do not being polite with people? (maybe you are trying to impose something on them, catch attention or call for help indirectly, explore that) When does it feel good to say bad words and when does it feel like complaining and underestimating myself?

I'm quite polite most of the time, I only use some "bad" words occasionally. It's more difficult for me to be polite when I'm confronted with trolls and people who do everything to annoy me.

I also had a period where I was not that much polite which was 4 - 3 years ago. I think that at this time, I resonated with what you're saying about the need for attention.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Raphael

[Raphael]

@Ya know Thanks for your thoughts.

[bejapuskas]

@Raphael  I see. I guess see what you feel in your body and how the other person responds, learn from experience. Sometimes saying bad words can be very effective, but also it can just be a way to be careless about conveying the right meaning, if you know what I mean.

[Raphael]

@bejapuskas

Yeah, I thought the same.

It also seems to me that using some vulgarity in marketing can be an effective strategy (I'm not doing that, it's just a thought) because people are used to marketing who promises love, care, and compassion. An aggressive marketing can attract a lot of people by shocking them and also because they are not used to it.

Another question: How would you deal with bullies? Would you stay polite? Or being aggressive?

[bejapuskas]

@Raphael  Yeh that can definitely be true to some extent. Or in complimenting someone, these vulgar words can be very powerful tools to make a meaning stronger. Also you can reflect on what kind of example or impression you wanna radiate, for example some people might not take you seriously if you speak in some sort of language, so if you are maybe sensitive and wanna stay open to these people, then you might consider not doing that, if you don't give a damn, then you don't give a damn. 

I think it depends on the age, environment, severity... Usually aggression breeds more aggression, I usually just avoid these people. Are you talking about something specific?

[Raphael]

50 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Are you talking about something specific?

I worked in a small company where the boss was the bully in chief and would bully all the employees. But also all the employees would bully me because I was the new young recruit, so in the end, I was bullied by everyone in the company. I would try to stand out for myself and refuse some things, and also responded many times with aggressiveness. They didn't like that because they wanted me to be submissive and polite to them, so in the end, it created a vicious circle that backfired more and more to me.

It left me traumatized.

[bejapuskas]

Don't let fear guide you.

[hamedsf]

there's not should and shouldn't

you should balance out both sides of the coin, we often see people who are too nice and polite or too bad and impolite. be in the middle and use each in the optimal situation