22, lost and afraid

[Ook]

Hi everyone,

I will first describe my issue in short and then work it out more so it might be easier to understand my situation.

Basically I am at the stage of my life in which I feel like I need to find a job that suits me. My dream would be Game Design but it's hard to find work in that industry. Now my issue is I don't know what job suits me and would like some suggestions.

My personality:
I am a creative person and would love a job in which I can use that creativity.
You could say I'm the typical introvert haha, dreamy, shy, love working on my own tho I don't mind working with likeminded people. If anything I enjoy working with people who think alike or have the same interests as me because that's how I meet my friends.

Even tho I'm an introvert I want to be more social and work on that as well. I love gaming in my spare time and my dreams are to become a GameDev someday, tho I am not sure if I will ever make that happen, perhaps I will do it on the side as an IndieDev. As you can guess I'm a geeky person. Love technology, fantasy worlds and ofc anime. 

So now the issue is what job should I go for? I want a job that is somewhat enjoyeable so I don't hate going there every morning. I have done multiple online tests and they all seem to point towards Game Design, Graphics Design, Web Design. Only the latter seems to have job opportunities but I'm not really sure about the programming side of things. Isn't programming pretty boring? I tried it during the one year I was in college and always failed with a score of around 48% (50% being needed to pass ofc).
Are there any other jobs out there that could suit me?

Thanks a lot in advance for any responses! Please bless me with thy knowledge (xD)!

[CoruptKirin]

If you truly love game/graphic design, I'd say try that out! I say this as someone also quite interested in that field! But know how unstable it may seem. 

What are some things you can do game design wise? Or are interested in learning? I have a friend on here that may be able to help you out direction wise on this! I'll PM you his handle and more details! He's a small indie game designer. 

If you're unsure what you wanna do, I'd suggest trying out most everything you're interested in. Design a few websites, build up your portfolio and see what sparks joy the most when you make it! 

For what other jobs could suite you- I'd need to know a lot more about your personality/preferences/skill-set. 

[supremeyingyang]

1 hour ago, Ook said:

So now the issue is what job should I go for? I want a job that is somewhat enjoyeable so I don't hate going there every morning.

so why you going into game dev then? leo talked a lot about the grind in the industry. see the below links for more information. basically: no creativity, perverse working time (12h+) and significantly less pay AND you get fired when the game is done. Plus much Competiton, because everyine 'has a passion for games' and is willing to work for like nothing

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/47h4xc/are_game_development_jobs_really_as_bad_as_people/

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-game-industry-as-bad-as-some-people-say-Whats-true-about-it-Is-it-worth-it

 

1 hour ago, Ook said:

Isn't programming pretty boring?

- I'd say no. If you don't like it in the beginning you can develop yourself to like it. For the vast Majority (not me) is Money the one driving factor to learn programming. however you need to have the capacity to sit in front of a computer huge chunks of time (at best 4+ hours) to make flow happen and people who don't need to socialize are in advantage.. the world is a big distraction from coding and learning

1 hour ago, Ook said:

I tried it during the one year I was in college and always failed with a score of around 48% (50% being needed to pass ofc).

- university is a different game, has nothing to do with the real thing. to put it into perspective how it will be: you fail all the time when you program (hours! days! weeks!) until you get it right, until you finally master a framework and you do 'everything right'. everyone (in good) software development goes all the time through the learning process. this is the way and the normal state... it's like learning to walk, you failed all the time but you can walk how, right?

 

1 hour ago, Ook said:

Are there any other jobs out there that could suit me?

- learn a valuable trade and use your creativity and build a own job in a few years (when you are ready to make it pay the bills). not even kidding...

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by supremeyingyang

[Veenix]

Hi everyone!

So I am actually the person behind the post. I posted this on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/findapath/comments/iejka9/22_lost_and_afraid/
Someone took my post there and posted it here and then showed me the link to this place.

I would love if any messages or pm's meant to help would go to me ^^

Thanks alot for the help already!

[Veenix]

10 hours ago, CoruptKirin said:

If you truly love game/graphic design, I'd say try that out! I say this as someone also quite interested in that field! But know how unstable it may seem. 

What are some things you can do game design wise? Or are interested in learning? I have a friend on here that may be able to help you out direction wise on this! I'll PM you his handle and more details! He's a small indie game designer. 

If you're unsure what you wanna do, I'd suggest trying out most everything you're interested in. Design a few websites, build up your portfolio and see what sparks joy the most when you make it! 

For what other jobs could suite you- I'd need to know a lot more about your personality/preferences/skill-set. 

Could you pm the info to me on this account? As I said in a reaction to this post: I'm the original poster of this and someone else posted my reddit post on this website.

When it comes to my personality info: What else would you like to know? Also I noticed some things were left out from my original post so I'd like to link to my reddit post again, maybe that helps out a bit more: https://www.reddit.com/r/findapath/comments/iejka9/22_lost_and_afraid/

Thanks alot!

Edited August 23, 2020 by Veenix
extra info

[Veenix]

9 hours ago, supremeyingyang said:

so why you going into game dev then? leo talked a lot about the grind in the industry. see the below links for more information. basically: no creativity, perverse working time (12h+) and significantly less pay AND you get fired when the game is done. Plus much Competiton, because everyine 'has a passion for games' and is willing to work for like nothing

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/47h4xc/are_game_development_jobs_really_as_bad_as_people/

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-game-industry-as-bad-as-some-people-say-Whats-true-about-it-Is-it-worth-it

 

- I'd say no. If you don't like it in the beginning you can develop yourself to like it. For the vast Majority (not me) is Money the one driving factor to learn programming. however you need to have the capacity to sit in front of a computer huge chunks of time (at best 4+ hours) to make flow happen and people who don't need to socialize are in advantage.. the world is a big distraction from coding and learning

- university is a different game, has nothing to do with the real thing. to put it into perspective how it will be: you fail all the time when you program (hours! days! weeks!) until you get it right, until you finally master a framework and you do 'everything right'. everyone (in good) software development goes all the time through the learning process. this is the way and the normal state... it's like learning to walk, you failed all the time but you can walk how, right?

 

- learn a valuable trade and use your creativity and build a own job in a few years (when you are ready to make it pay the bills). not even kidding...

 

I really like the idea behind creating games. Maybe I should do it as an Indie Dev instead of working for big companies, I'm not sure. I have heard of all the horror stories, about how hard it is to find a job in the industry and how poorly people get treated there. That's also why I doubt if Game Design is the way to go and the reason for me asking for advice on other jobs that could suit me.

Sitting in front of a computer is for me no issue. I am used to it and already spend most of my time infront of a computer right now. However I don't fully understand how you can make yourself like something? I myself see programming more as writing code without real inspiration. Maybe I'm wrong in that, I'm not sure. If you know any videos or tips on how to get yourself to like something you aren't into at first then I would really appreciate a link to such videos or those tips themselves.

I suppose you are correct about the college thing, perhaps I would just need more practice.

I was planning on doing that. Creating my own Game Dev company or something. I have alot of ideas for different games and wrote them all down, took screenshots of anything that inspired me, saved playlists of music that inspired me and so on. I think using Social Media and selecting some niches in the Gaming Industry could help me make that dream a reality. For example many games are being released every year and only a few get well known, however there are certain kind of games or games with certain themes or audiences that will always get free media coverage (mostly by youtubers in that niche, some of them having a pretty impressive following). So I believe that is the way to buildup my own audience and maybe eventually be able to work all for myself.

[supremeyingyang]

@Veenix

so you done some ground research which is good. if you want to do a game as a indie dev, i would think that marketing is more important than the technical things. there are good games that yield no cash and bad ones that get bought any way.

if you don't compromise on your vision it can be cool. maybe you could have a programmer day job?

[Veenix]

7 minutes ago, supremeyingyang said:

@Veenix

so you done some ground research which is good. if you want to do a game as a indie dev, i would think that marketing is more important than the technical things. there are good games that yield no cash and bad ones that get bought any way.

if you don't compromise on your vision it can be cool. maybe you could have a programmer day job?

Yeh, I have never really fully created a game yet but after studying economics in highschool and learning alot from youtube Indie Devs, I realised that creating a game is only half the work, the other half is marketing it and creating your own audience for your games, which is why I am also looking into creating youtube videos, tho I am not fully sure yet if I would purely make Game Dev vids or just artsy/small animated videos (for example like Berd).

Yes I have been thinking when it comes to day jobs. I definetly want something that is fun to do on its own, something different than Game Design so I can always fall back on it, but that's where my questionmark is. I got no idea what day job would suit someone like me. Using some of my creativity should def be in there. I have been thinking about teacher although u need a degree for that, working in a tech shop also sounds fun tho shopworkers are paid poorly in Belgium, Web Design is another option that I have seen being mentioned alot next to Graphic Design or Game Design but there's also the programming part to that job which I am not fully sure of if I would enjoy it and offcourse programming but again I am afraid it might feel too boring to me. Not sure offcourse, I could always try and learn it and see how it goes.

[supremeyingyang]

@Veenix

well, once you learned programming you'll never have trouble finding a job plus it's strongly related to making games, even though you may use other languages. i'm into programming, so i'm biased towards it.

to try it out you can buy a web design course at udemy (please only buy on sales, they are 80 % of the time on sale) or whatever site you prefer. why web dev? you don't need anything special to build cool stuff and you can make entire websites alone. cool games are harder to do alone i guess. working in a tech shop sounds cool to me, i would like to do that as well but you can't do anything^^

you could build a website text game to see if you like it

Edited August 23, 2020 by supremeyingyang

[Arion]

As a fellow 23 year old, 

I will tell you that you must expect some disappointments in the working world- you may not get all that you seek..the key is to be able to bear the things you don't liek and understand why they need to be there, and treasure the parts that you do like and become a master at it;

I would tell you that the concern for finding the perfect square job will fade as you realise that it likely is not possible.

[Leo Gura]

You don't need to be programmer to do game dev. There are many other roles:

• Producer
• Designer
• Level design
• Art
• Audio
• PR/marketing/sales

The way to break into games is simple: you work on your own little projects, building up skills, and developing a solid, polished portfolio which you then show off to employers. Attending game's conferences like GDC and networking with your portfolio in-hand can open many doors.

Starting game design is easier than ever today thanks to powerful and cheap tools like Unity, Unreal, or many of the modding toolkits like that of Skyrim, Fallout, or other games.

One of the easiest ways to get hired is to create a solid and popular mod for a popular game like Fallout/Skyrim. As new games are released, start modding them and posting your work for fans to give you feedback and reviews. Designing board games or pen and paper games is also a good way to build up your design skills.

Basically, as long as you have the skills and can demonstrate them, you will get hired. The trick is developing the skills. This requires some years of committed work and a plan.

I could write an entire course on how to become a top notch game designer and get hired by the best studios.

[nistake]

I want to be a 3D artist, so I practise my 3D skills everyday, pay for online courses and learn the necessary softwares. I also needed to buy some gear which makes my workflow easier (if you're really committed, you'd have to sacrifice some money on it, but it's not a must in the beginning).

What also really helps is to learn about the industry in general. What is needed, what is required. A decent portfolio is a must.

Youtube is your greatest asset, you can find many-many proper tutorials whatever you'd like to learn. If you want to take it to the next level, pay for online courses. These courses are way better than the YT tutorials because they are much longer, more detailed and basically they give you a solid foundation for any specific technique/software.

It may seem a daunting task at first, but don't despair. Have a vision, start small and work your way up.

[Leo Gura]

@nistake If you want to be a great 3D artist you should study traditional art. Anatomy, sculpture, drawing, color theory, composition, etc.

The most impressive thing Art Directors look for when hiring 3D artists is whether they have that traditional artistic knowledge. Since that is hardest to teach. They care less about your technical software skills. Although of course technical software skills are important to develop your portfolio. But what you should really highlight is your understanding of traditional art, anatomy, and form. If you can demonstrate a solid classical understanding of art, you shouldn't have a problem getting hired and even trained on the job in new software.

Be a good artist first, and a 3D artist second. Because good art is the foundation for good 3D art.

When you try to pitch yourself to employers, don't lead with your technical skills, lead with your fundamental mastery of your craft, whether that be art, programming, design, business, or whatever. Demonstrate that you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals of your sub-field. Demonstrate mastery and excellent grasp of your sub-field. Then your technical skills are the cherry on top.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura Do you think it's important to go to an Art school or university to learn all that?

Aren't online courses, books, and seminars and those kinds of things sufficient enough?

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura Do you think it's important to go to an Art school or university to learn all that?

Aren't online courses, books, and seminars and those kinds of things sufficient enough?

In theory you would learn it more comprehensively in a formal art school.

But this not strictly necessary. You can also teach much of it to yourself. But you'll have to put in the time and energy.

There is a significant difference between formal art training vs simply watching 3DsMax tutorials. Technical software skills are NOT art fundamentals.

I have a good grasp of 3DsMax and Photoshop, but I have very little grasp of art fundamentals. Which is why I'm not a great artist. But I can model a dragon in 3DsMax. But it won't be an awesome work of art. Hence studios would be fools to hire me as a 3D artist.

For me to become a great artist I would need serious formal art training. Not just some online software tutorials. To be a great artist you must study the aesthetics of life: form, shape, lines, curves, colors, composition, symmetry, light, shadow, objects, anatomy, etc.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura Sorry for the little offtopic but I wanted to know your opinion about something. Do you see Art, Programming, and other mediums like those just as tools to develop something? Do you see a value in learning for example web development just for its sake? I mean, isn't what you develop more important than the tools you use?

I'm asking that because currently, I work as a web developer in a company, but from childhood (I'm 24 now), I also loved art and played with Graphics software and drew well too (I draw sometimes even today). Now I'm torn between those two domains because if I transition from a developer's position and start learning Art and Graphics, I'd struggle financially, lose a couple of years of coding experience, network of people, etc. I also like what I'm doing right now, but I also want to do much more  I think a life lived in coding 8-10 hours a day is a waste...

I think you make some bold career transitions in your life. 

[nistake]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not under the impression that learning any software/technical skill will 100% get me a job. Knowing softwares by itself is useless. It's clear that the work you put out needs creativity, personal touch, knowledge about traditional art (just like you said) and anything that makes it stand out from the rest. Anybody can learn a software in a few months, that's not the difficult part, although I still think it's really important to learn it sooner than later because you obviously need platform to create in.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura Sorry for the little offtopic but I wanted to know your opinion about something. Do you see Art, Programming, and other mediums like those just as tools to develop something? Do you see a value in learning for example web development just for its sake? I mean, isn't what you develop more important than the tools you use?

That's the point having a clear life purpose. So you can know what your mission is and what are the tools and means by which to get there.

I would definitely not put the medium as my life purpose. The medium is just one expression of my life purpose. This gives you the flexibility to change mediums while staying on purpose, and finding the medium which is more conducive to the fulfillment of your purpose.

Then again, some people just fucking love art or programming for its own sake. And there's nothing wrong with that per se, Your purpose might be to just explore the craft of art or programming your entire life.

Quote

I'm asking that because currently, I work as a web developer in a company, but from childhood (I'm 24 now), I also loved art and played with Graphics software and drew well too (I draw sometimes even today). Now I'm torn between those two domains because if I transition from a developer's position and start learning Art and Graphics, I'd struggle financially, lose a couple of years of coding experience, network of people, etc. I also like what I'm doing right now, but I also want to do much more  I think a life lived in coding 8-10 hours a day is a waste...

I think you make some bold career transitions in your life. 

Sounds like you answered your own question there.

Follow your passion, despite the short-term costs. Of course there will be short-term costs to transitions careers/domains/mediums. But in the long-term you will win by following your heart, which seems to be art.

You can find gradual and strategic ways to transitions such that you don't immediately just quit your day job.

Art and programming also happen to dovetail so well that you can easily create an niche which is a 50/50 blend of the two. Technical artists can be highly valued and well-paid. Dev teams badly need technical artists. You can either turn this into your end-goal, or it could just be a stepping stone towards a full transition into art some years later. There's plenty of flexibility here.

The biggest thing you should fear is wasting your life doing things your heart isn't into.

[ROOBIO]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the point having a clear life purpose. So you can know what your mission is and what are the tools and means by which to get there.

I would definitely not put the medium as my life purpose. The medium is just one expression of my life purpose. This gives you the flexibility to change mediums while staying on purpose, and finding the medium which is more conducive to the fulfillment of your purpose.

Then again, some people just fucking love art or programming for its own sake. And there's nothing wrong with that per se, Your purpose might be to just explore the craft of art or programming your entire life.

 

 

Isn't it the same. Doesn't it depend on your zone of genius and impact statement?

For example, your zone of genius could be app development and your impact being "bringing AI tech to everyone". Obviously the medium would be programming which basically the zone of genius here.

Or we take the example of a filmmaker, like Chirs Nolen. His medium defines his career. I guess ZOG is telling non-linear stories through movies. His medium is interwoven into his ZOG here. If he changed his medium to pubic speaking infront of crowds he wouldn't be as good and would need to spend alot more time developing that medium. So surly you need to have the medium in which you enjoy the most of expressing your ideas at the front of your mind when developing your life purpose. Maybe he would hate expressing his zone of genius through speaking.

Or eg yourself, you said you didn't like blogging at the start. Now if we go to the extreme and said that is the only way of expressing your impact statement and no way else, would you still carry on with your purpose? Or if you change your medium to express your impact through the film you might not like it.

My point is that I think in a lot of cases life purpose arises from mastering a craft. Eg from Cal Newport's: So Good They Can't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love. I guess you master your zone of genius, but in many cases, the medium is intertwined with that?

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by ROOBIO