Shunyamurti Criticising Psychedelic

[Dodo]

13 minutes ago, bobbyward said:

@Dodo how long do you retain your seman for, and does it have any negative impact on your sleep?

its not only about retaining but you also have to do some energetic work / different types of yoga to help move the energies about, otherwise it will just go stagnant.

I'm a newbie just started, but I can already see the positive effects and the difference when I relapse in energy level is significant. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dodo

[electroBeam]

8 hours ago, Dand said:

Does that mean you can take 10g of mushrooms and go to a job interview and be unaffected? I'm not closed off to this possibility, but you're making a pretty bold claim. Considering you claim you can reach a 10g of mushrooms state sober, then you shouldn't have much trouble finding a way to explain why this is possible for you.

You wont be open to it.

That's like an atheist saying "your making a pretty bold claim that the ego doesn't exist. If you can reach a non egoic state then you should be able to explain it easily" 

You think the atheist will listen?

 

If you truly care to know, go investigate it yourself. I'm showing you that its clearly possible for you. If it interests you. Go investigate psychedelics and see how they work. It wont make you enlightened by doing this, but it will quench your curiosity. 

8 hours ago, Dand said:

You can't separate the physical from the metaphysical, so if you eat shrooms, how are you altering physicality? Are you making it so your receptors are not binding to the psilocin molecules? Are you allowing them to bind but then still not being affected? Does this mean you can move around objects with your mind?

You're not aware yet that there's more than 1 'physicality' happening in the present moment right now. Every object in awareness are a million different objects at once. From a tribal/purple stage, a mobile phone is NOT a phone, but an enchanted monolith that has access to the gods. From an orange stage perspective a phone is a clock work, Newtonian machine that is working of logic and order. From a green stage its a disruption of harmony with nature, from a turquoise stage its part of a bigger whole. And that's just spiral dynamics. Now consider what a phone is from the perspective of animals, insects, aliens, different objects (a beer bottle sees a phone in a totally different way to you). What a phone is, is relative to your identity. If you're aware every millisecond that your identity is relative (I.E. you're not a human, you can identify with anything) then you're capable of seeing every object in the room from a million perspectives at once. If you identify with paper, as soon as the paper gets ripped in half, you'll look at that like someone ripping your grandma in half. Identity is very relative. And maya is constructed from it. 

And then there are perspectives happening NOW where a phone isn't even recognisable, because the concept of phone just doesn't make sense. 

You can access any of these perspectives now SOBER. You just need to contemplate and question deeply about what's happening you.

You can even just dissolve into white light now. Again by question what the fuck is in front of you. 

And when you take psychedelics, you're altering your identity and therefore altering what's in the room. You alter your identity not because the psychedelics are altering your neurochemistry (all that materialist stuff is an illusion/dream) the psychedelics are a placebo that's tricking you into thinking you're altering your neurochemistry.

If you completely stop identifying with being a human, psychedelics stop working, because the placebo of "im a human and taking psychedelics affects my body" doesn't make sense anymore.
 

That's why beer bottles don't get high when they take psychedelics, because that's not what you believe. Not because the materialist paradigm is real and absolute and its a real fact that beer bottles don't have neurochemistry to alter and blablalba... In your next reincarnation maybe you will dream up the possibility of beer bottles able to get high. What's real is what you dream up, and you can dream up anything. And you're dreaming up the idea of a human getting high with psychedelics and that's why they work, because you're dreaming them up. As soon as the dream starts to be revealed, it breaks down, and through contemplation you can actually question and change the dream. That's why Newtonian mechanics was real in the past but isn't real anymore. That's how going up spiral dynamic stages work. You literally change the dream by seeing form in different perspectives. 

 

And as for the rest of what you said. A materialist mindset isn't appropriate for the discussion. I suggest you use another one. Trying to figure out what's happening subjectively with shrooms using a materialist mindset is no more effective than trying to figure out the subjective effects of shrooms through looking in the bible for the answers. 

 

When you go to a job interview, there's already a trillion different physical dimensions happening NOW! Heck infinity is happening NOW! If you can manage infinity, what's so hard about 10g of shrooms?

Edited August 28, 2020 by electroBeam

[Gesundheit]

Psychedelics are a child's play, simply put, but so is all reality.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Dand said:

Try me, I've had trips so intense they made a DMT breakthrough feel like less than a microdose.

Oh I understand your perspective now. Kind of misleading but sure you're right in that sense. 

Though be careful not to demonize materialism, I'm far from a materialist but that doesn't mean physical reality doesn't exist. Sure it's an illusion/dream, as is literally everything, but 'physicality' is an infinite spectrum that stretches across infinite dimensions, and then some more LOL

You're not wrong about anything you said, but if you stop at being correct then you're really gonna struggle to communicate the reality of your situation to others. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if everyone interprets you in a way that's not aligned with your actual experience of reality, then you've still got a potentially long way to go.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter anyways so fuck it. @electroBeam

That's why I'm a mathematician/machine learning engineer. You wont understand my words, but you'll understand my math  

Or no you wont understand my math, but it will work, and that's good enough for impacting the world. 

 

But yeah for you(a youtube video maker) guess words are important for ya. 

 

I'm not demonising materialism, but its 1 paradigm out of a trillion, and I don't see any reason to use it other than niche cases. Its so overrated on the planet and even on this forum. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by electroBeam

[ajai]

I think there's a fine line that needs to be drawn between just pychedelics and psychedelics as helping tools along with other self-realization techniques.

Now in this video Sadhguru says:

"Any thing inorganic you put it into your organic system, you have to pay for it"

Yes maybe true I don't know, but the thing that irritates me more is even people like him who are higher on the spiral they do advocate it's not good for you to intake such substances yet they will never say there's a need for Psychedelic Literacy and that the usage shouldn't run amok, that's a straw man.

Help me understand this shit?

 

[Grateful Dead]

On 27.8.2020 at 1:45 AM, electroBeam said:

I actually took 10 grams of mushrooms recently as a test, then I did sober stuff, and I reached the same state sober. 

I've also got the 'ability' to turn psychedelic states on and off after taking them at will. I can literally not feel anything from 10g of mushrooms if I want to. 

But there's no point arguing here, you guys are just 'out of the loop'. 

reminded me on this story

was always curious how that would work..

[electroBeam]

@acidgoofy yep that's exactly right, focus on God and you don't get any effects. 

[Consilience]

@electroBeam I dont see how your claim is possible. 3.5g of mushrooms and my mind has literally melted. The ability to even speak english is gone. The truth between sobriety and tripping (God) hasnt changed at all, but form and the way it interacts with itself has completely and utterly altered. 

[electroBeam]

@Consilience form radically alters every millisecond, not just when you're tripping. 

What is different when tripping is your interpretations of that form. 

[Consilience]

21 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Consilience form radically alters every millisecond, not just when you're tripping. 

What is different when tripping is your interpretations of that form. 

Not in my experience. Quite literally the way form, specifically form we could label as “mind” is operating in an entirely novel way under doses this high. Yes the mechanism of interpretation has changed, but so too has the subject of interpretation and the tool doing the interpretation. 

But hey Im open to the possibilities you’re citing, they’re just very far from what I can relate to. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Consilience

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Not in my experience. Quite literally the way form, specifically form we could label as “mind” is operating in an entirely novel way under doses this high. Yes the mechanism of interpretation has changed, but so too has the subject of interpretation and the tool doing the interpretation. 

What's the difference between a cup and a computer?

[Consilience]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

What's the difference between a cup and a computer?

Nothing and everything.

Im just pointing out that my mind starts losing the ability to think linearly, past and future break down, the subjective meaning entangled with words breaks down, and thus the ability to have what we may otherwise consider coherent thoughts is completely gone on 3.5g of mushrooms. All of this is a tiny fraction of how subjectivity has altered on psychedelics. Thus the idea of doing a job interview tripping on 10g of mushrooms seems impossible. On 10g of mushrooms the idea of jobs, interviews, language, self and other would be completely obliterated. 

I think of the most effective ways of analyzing perspectives, in this case psychedelic trips, is to become very clear on both the differences and similarities between that state and the sober state. Falling into “it’s all one state, there is no difference if you concentrate on god” may be true from a certain pov, but it’s also a limited and partial perspective if we’re concerned with the highest tier of understanding psychedelics, sobriety, and more generally states of consciousness. 

[electroBeam]

37 minutes ago, Consilience said:

On 10g of mushrooms the idea of jobs, interviews, language, self and other would be completely obliterated. 

I get ya. I'm not saying that you can do a job interview on 10 grams of mushrooms. I'm saying "the idea of jobs, interviews, language, self and other would be completely obliterated" can be realized now sober as it is for several people on this forum. And from there psychedelics have no effect on you like ram dass's guru that focused on god to not get affected by psychedelics. 

38 minutes ago, Consilience said:

I think of the most effective ways of analyzing perspectives, in this case psychedelic trips, is to become very clear on both the differences and similarities between that state and the sober state. Falling into “it’s all one state, there is no difference if you concentrate on god” may be true from a certain pov, but it’s also a limited and partial perspective if we’re concerned with the highest tier of understanding psychedelics, sobriety, and more generally states of consciousness. 

Sure, in the same way as saying "I think the effective way to analysing legends of zelda is to become very clear on both the differences and similarities between what zelda feels during level 2 and what he feels during level 5... and also why he feels that way, what causes him to feel that way, and when he would feel different. Also we should analyse how he feels in relation to the colour in the sky".

You can analyse and contemplate for eternity, and its all super cool and useful and fun and exciting. Its a process of creation. But confusing the creation for the truth is a trap. You can analyse zelda to death, but never forget its all bullshit. Analysing zelda is not discovering the truth, but a creative exercise... you're creating stuff for fun. Like a child creating stuff with lego blocks. Then you'll get lost in your creation and here you are  You can analyse psychedelic states to death, but there are consequences to believing your analysis is true. Its not true its false and completely a creative exercise. 

[Consilience]

11 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I get ya. I'm not saying that you can do a job interview on 10 grams of mushrooms. I'm saying "the idea of jobs, interviews, language, self and other would be completely obliterated" can be realized now sober as it is for several people on this forum. And from there psychedelics have no effect on you like ram dass's guru that focused on god to not get affected by psychedelics. 

Sure, in the same way as saying "I think the effective way to analysing legends of zelda is to become very clear on both the differences and similarities between what zelda feels during level 2 and what he feels during level 5... and also why he feels that way, what causes him to feel that way, and when he would feel different. Also we should analyse how he feels in relation to the colour in the sky".

You can analyse and contemplate for eternity, and its all super cool and useful and fun and exciting. Its a process of creation. But confusing the creation for the truth is a trap. You can analyse zelda to death, but never forget its all bullshit. Analysing zelda is not discovering the truth, but a creative exercise... you're creating stuff for fun. Like a child creating stuff with lego blocks. Then you'll get lost in your creation and here you are  You can analyse psychedelic states to death, but there are consequences to believing your analysis is true. Its not true its false and completely a creative exercise. 

There’s something much more powerful and direct about analyzing states of consciousness than analyzing zelda but yeah I understand all of this already.

It sounds like we use psychedelics very differently. That’s fine. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Consilience

[WaveInTheOcean]

of course we are all using psychedelics differently. we are all unique and different (as humans) due to genetics and upbringing. In regards to awakening and enlightenment there is no clear-cut default way for anyone. we all have to walk the path ourselves in our own unique way. Of course God has laid out some breadcumbs, such as pychedelics and the art of meditation, but it's still unique for everyone.