Shunyamurti Criticising Psychedelic

[electroBeam]

26 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

 

If an average person practices seriously

Depends what practising seriously means for you.

The conventional understanding of what 'serious practice' is, is quite limited. You could get 1000x more results just genuinely being curious all the time as you walk in the park then you can sitting in a cave following yogic instructions. 

And then there's what 'serious' actually means. Is being serious beneficial to spiritual growth? Or is it a limiting mindset? Seriousness can actually block you from being light hearted with your thoughts and beliefs, and actually cause you to cling onto certain limiting beliefs that prevent the ego from being shed. 

Most people who 'practice seriously' are actually just building up spiritual ego or an identity around being a meditator, yogi, etc. 

By saying 'practice seriously', you're already assuming a particular identity archetype. And identity archetypes are again limited and can block you from growth. 

In my experience, spiritual growth is not caused by doing a particular technique, but by how your life is as a whole/entire experience. Spiritual growth is proportional to career + health + walks in the path + your personality + people around you + etc. And spiritual practice is one of those aspects. 

And saying that 'you're enlightening or growing spiritually' is again a false notion, because you're not growing spiritually. Life, the present moment, as a whole is waking up. Not just you particularly, but the entire universe is waking up. There is no you waking up.  

And if spiritual growth is caused by all those things as one experience, then saying that psychedelics cause personal growth to your human form or don't cause growth is a pretty limited way to look at it. Go as far as to say its a red herring. Its completely irrelevant to question whether psychedelics are waking you up or not, because you as an individual are not even waking up. You, as an individual, are part of an entire whole, and your effects off the psychedelics are 1 cog of the entire universe. And that one cog is doing stuff in combination with all the other cogs to wake up as a whole.

And the real question is, how are psychedelics waking up the entire universe as a whole? What's their function for the whole? How does you, as an individual help the entire whole wake up? Taking into account multiple lifetimes, multiple identities, etc. 

What is your story? How does your story work? How is everything in your story contribute to everything in your story waking up as an entire whole? How are your psychedelic experiences, not just taking them, but the process of aquiring them, taking them, and the after effects of taking them affect universal waking up? How does the way you take them, the room you take them in, the time you take them, the day you take them, what you take, the thoughts, music, friends, family, career you have when you're preparing to take them, take them and after taking them affect waking up? Notice that if your room, friends, time period, career was slightly different to the way it is now, your experience and waking up process would be entirely different. You can't just single out psychedelics as a single thing waking you up. Its everything in combination. Your room is affecting the waking up process just as much as the psychedelics. 

Thats why this notion of psychedelics vs no psychedelics and spiritual talent is just silly, because you're singling out 1 factor out of millions of factors for the waking up process. 

[Haloman]

@electroBeam That was nice! That's how turquoise looks like.

[Mohammad]

I think God, in the form of every human mind, wants to realize itself through various ways. Infinite ways. Sometimes it realizes itself by an accident, sometimes by using psychedelics, sometimes meditation and chanting. My overall point is, I think it depends on the person and his/her journey through life. You just have be to be conscious enough so that when you experience your true being, you realize it.

I believe a man that has walked 100 roads can judge those roads better than someone who has just walked 10, and then judges 100. That's why I always try to very clearly listen to what Leo says, and then use my own judgment, and refer to my own experiences. He has gone down many roads. Many of these gurus and enlightened people are good-hearted and try to help others, but I don't think that they have experimented with psychedelics.

 

[Gidiot]

@Mohammad well said

[Dodo]

@Anon212 @bobbyward Semen retention + Raja (do nothing in no thought) + Hatha (good posture) + Jnana (aware of awareness / knowing knowing) yoga = unlock psychedelics within

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dodo

[Michal__]

3 minutes ago, Dodo said:

@Anon212 @bobbyward Semen retention + Raja + Hatha + Jnana yoga = unlock psychedelics within

I mean that is pretty powerful, now add psychadelics into the mix to amplify everything even more

[Dodo]

Just now, Michal__ said:

I mean that is pretty powerful, now add psychadelics into the mix to amplify everything even more

Never taken, only mild "psychedelic" called weed

[allislove]

15 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Never taken, only mild "psychedelic" called weed

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I wouldn't put label "psychedelic" on weed at all.

Try acid, then you know what "psychedelics within" really means

[mandyjw]

5 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Depends what practising seriously means for you.

The conventional understanding of what 'serious practice' is, is quite limited. You could get 1000x more results just genuinely being curious all the time as you walk in the park then you can sitting in a cave following yogic instructions. 

And then there's what 'serious' actually means. Is being serious beneficial to spiritual growth? Or is it a limiting mindset? Seriousness can actually block you from being light hearted with your thoughts and beliefs, and actually cause you to cling onto certain limiting beliefs that prevent the ego from being shed. 

I like the words sincere or earnest. Slightly different connotations make a world of difference in avoiding misconceptions I think. 

[Ponder]

13 minutes ago, allislove said:

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I wouldn't put label "psychedelic" on weed at all.

Try acid, then you know what "psychedelics within" really means

I know this might sound hard to believe, but I once obtained some “cheese weed”  (as it was dubbed) from a location that shall not be named. The admittedly sketchy-looking dealer informed us that this was not your ordinary weed, boasting of a 30% THC content; purportedly multiple orders stronger than the average stuff you’d find. At the time, I didn’t think much of it. A sketchy dealer overhyping his product isn’t anything new, right?

The objective of this journey, for me and my curious comrades, was to get our hands on either shrooms or LSD, but to no avail, and after purchasing the weed in a somewhat dejected state, we made the trip home. 

Upon arriving home, I was beyond tired, and I thought I’d have a toke before hitting the sack. So I loaded up the bong, took a hit, and made my way to the bedroom. While walking down the hallway, a mere 10 seconds after inhalation, it hit me like a freight train, and at that moment I knew that the dealer wasn’t having us on: this was nowhere near your run-of-the-mill ganja; not even close. 

What followed was an experience that I can only describe as “psychedelic“ in the truest sense of the word. In fact, and while I know I’ll get some eye-rolls for this, this experience rivalled, and in some ways outdid, the 300ug LSD trip that I had undergone just a few weeks prior. And, keep in mind, this was from one toke. ONE measly toke. 

I won’t go into detail of what the trip consisted of and the insights that were had (as this post is already much lengthier than intended), but this trip, in my eyes, unequivocally solidified weed  as a fierce contender amongst the consciousness-expanding powerhouses of LSD and shrooms, not to mention MDMA and other highly regarded substances. 

And while I have never come close to re-creating a similar experience with weed, it is now undoubtable that, given the right strain, weed can be mindblowingly profound, and my reaction to anyone claiming otherwise is (in classic stoner fashion): “Well, like, you’re obviously just not getting the right stuff, bro” ?
 

 

[allislove]

30 minutes ago, Ponder said:

it hit me like a freight train

Sounds like smoking 5-MeO.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, allislove said:

I know a lot of people won't agree with me but I wouldn't put label "psychedelic" on weed at all.

Try acid, then you know what "psychedelics within" really means

I've had strange experiences as a kid such as one time I became an entire mountain range, I was the mountains. Have only a distant memory now but maybe that was psychedelics within?  idk how real this memory is, but its also not the only one about stuff like that. I just didn't really understand as a kid so I didn't really talk about it with anyone

If I pop acid, I wouldnt see psychedelics within (because its from the outside?) . Although yeah, it is within my awareness before I pop it. But then why even pop it, if its already within me before I put it in the body.

lol

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dodo

[allislove]

39 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I've had strange experiences as a kid such as one time I became an entire mountain range, I was the mountains. Have only a distant memory now but maybe that was psychedelics within?

You'll never know until you try.

39 minutes ago, Dodo said:

If I pop acid, I wouldnt see psychedelics within (because its from the outside?) . Although yeah, it is within my awareness before I pop it. But then why even pop it, if its already within me before I put it in the body.

Psychedelics as a tool for spiritual growth, combining with regular spiritual practices, may definetely help to realize that there is no "me", "body" or "outside" ?
It even may help to realize that there is no psychedelics. Everything is you.

[Dodo]

27 minutes ago, allislove said:

You'll never know until you try.

Psychedelics as a tool for spiritual growth, combining with regular spiritual practices, may definetely help to realize that there is no "me", "body" or "outside" ?
It even may help to realize that there is no psychedelics ?

I gather from Advaita Vedanta that during the waking I am this bodymind just as much as when I'm in a dream I am the dream bodymind. But we know that the only reality in a dream is the consciousness/awareness that the dream appears to (you). So why not the same for the waking state?

Just as during the dream we see it as real until we gain lucidity/wake up, and we see our identification with the dream bodymind as something self evident... We later see that it was just a case of wrong identification due to ignorance. 

The waking, dream and sleep states appear to me. Using language is OK here, it might appear as dualistic, but it's really not. This is because the only real "thing" in all the states is that which unifies them - Me/ the Self/Atman.

When I say the states are appearing to me, I am not saying that there are these things here called "The states" and there is another thing here called me that is separate and looking at those states, because there is only one real thing there, the unchanging one.

Just some contemplations 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dodo

[allislove]

@Dodo yes  

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, allislove said:

@Dodo yes  

yeah and what I mean by writing all these is perhaps that only my waking ego can take a psychedelic, both of which don't really exist in reality, but just in the waking state appearance  which is where I guess your small print comes into play lol

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dodo

[allislove]

@Dodo exactly ❤️

[Fran11]

8 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Depends what practising seriously means for you.

The conventional understanding of what 'serious practice' is, is quite limited. You could get 1000x more results just genuinely being curious all the time as you walk in the park then you can sitting in a cave following yogic instructions. 

And then there's what 'serious' actually means. Is being serious beneficial to spiritual growth? Or is it a limiting mindset? Seriousness can actually block you from being light hearted with your thoughts and beliefs, and actually cause you to cling onto certain limiting beliefs that prevent the ego from being shed. 

Most people who 'practice seriously' are actually just building up spiritual ego or an identity around being a meditator, yogi, etc. 

By saying 'practice seriously', you're already assuming a particular identity archetype. And identity archetypes are again limited and can block you from growth. 

@electroBeam Wow you took the word "seriously" too seriously I just ment it must be a priority in your life. Most cases of people not progressing it's because they just play around with spirituality.

I liked the park example. In my experience, permanent mindfulness and constant identification and rejaction of the "I thought" are much more powerful than they seem, in the long term.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Fran11

[Member]

On 8/26/2020 at 10:02 AM, Mada_ said:

He is now in a psych ward and is convinced he is a glass of orange juice, and screams when anyone comes near him because he thinks they will knock him over. 

That's definitely not cute.

[bobbyward]

@Dodo how long do you retain your seman for, and does it have any negative impact on your sleep?

Edited August 27, 2020 by bobbyward