Shunyamurti Criticising Psychedelic

[Ry4n]

@electroBeam Since when are enlightened people beyond the dream? Literally everything of form is within the dream.

[electroBeam]

1 minute ago, Ry4n said:

@electroBeam Since when are enlightened people beyond the dream? Literally everything of form is within the dream.

I didn't say that at all. They are conscious of the dream. 

[Leo Gura]

@electroBeam Your ideas of enlightened people are silly.

[Dazgwny]

@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What about if someone walks in with a straw?

??? fucks sake u humour me ?

[AcaciaConfusa]

i like watching shunyamurti videos. Quite nice content IMO. Getting out of maya is one thing and i belief he made good progress so far, but being in godmode on psychedelics is different.  They way he talks, how he drinks, the expression on his face and so on is completely different from what i've experienced when i'm in a psychedlic state. Shunymurti also told a story about ancient yogis who were on a complete different level than nowadays. Maybe nowadays they are all just Upa Gurus. We adapted to the plants, not the other way around. Without this plants we probably would still be apes. There is infinite wisdom that comes along with them. I can't stress out how much the mushroom changed my perception and i'ill be forever grateful for that.

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

. If you're enlightened you're conscious of everything. No pebble left unturned. 

A year ago I thought I reached final enlightenment. Soon afterwards though, I realised I was no where near the end. This path is endless my friend. Always more.

Most of the enlightened people you know are famous teachers. Clearly at some point they ceased meditation and focused on teaching. Had they carried on, they would’ve been more conscious.

[allislove]

A meditation practice deepens psychedelic trips. Psychedelic trips deepen the meditation practice. 
The meditation practice, psychedelics, spiritual transmissions, etc are all within the dream, just a placebo, just you. 
It's wise to use as many tools as possible. It's important to enjoy the tools you use, so choose whatever resonates with you in the current moment. 

Psychedelics are one of the most effective tools out there 

[Fran11]

Fanatic psychonauts should study the occult. So that you stop understimating what sober conciousness can do by projecting your own level onto others. You'll be amazed when you meet people who can do things you can't do no matter what dose of mashrooms you take.

Psychedelics are GREAT, but some of you people get dogmatic and close minded when their limitations are pointed out. They are not as powerful as other mehods to rise your baseline conciousness. Maybe some of you just care about having big peaks, but if you want to ALSO have a very high sober conciousness, they won't spare you of the hard work.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Fran11

[electroBeam]

8 hours ago, Dand said:

This shouldn't be an argument, if you claim that you can reach 50g of mushrooms ego death intensity through meditation in a single human lifetime you're kidding yourself.

I actually took 10 grams of mushrooms recently as a test, then I did sober stuff, and I reached the same state sober. 

I've also got the 'ability' to turn psychedelic states on and off after taking them at will. I can literally not feel anything from 10g of mushrooms if I want to. 

But there's no point arguing here, you guys are just 'out of the loop'. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by electroBeam

[Tim R]

7 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I've also got the 'ability' to turn psychedelic states on and off after taking them at will. I can literally not feel anything from 10g of mushrooms if I want to. 

How's that supposed to work?

[electroBeam]

5 minutes ago, Tim R said:

How's that supposed to work?

Go study how psychedelics work on a metaphysical level.

Take a psychedelic and focus your awareness on how consciousness is changing and WHY.

Before taking the psychedelic, notice what your consciousness is like compared to an ordinary day. You'll notice your consciousness is actually heightened before taking the psychedelic purely because you're about to take one.

Question why your consciousness increases when you feel bliss, and all the other stuff that happens on a psychedelic. Why is it that psychedelic phenomena = higher consciousness? Whose projecting that? Why isn't the office desk just as high conscious as bliss and being a tv monitor, or the entire universe or dmt machine elves or seeing visuals? What's so special about that stuff compared to your office desk? Its a projection. You're projecting that psychedelic states are higher conscious than your office desk because blablabla and therefore that makes you actually go to higher states of consciousness. You're projecting that as part of the matrix or maya or illusion you're in, as part of the story you're in. Its a way of maintaining your story as a human being. If you were to admit that your office is just as groundless as psychedelic states like dmt machine elves, then your story would be fucked, so you did something clever and projected the idea of psychedelics, mystical states, etc. And projected the idea of the 'normal' world and the 'psychedelic' or 'mystical state' world, and separated and projected a difference between the two. The reality is they aren't 2, they are ONE. They are the same. But your reality would be destroyed by admitting that, so you created the 2 to maintain your lower/egoic consciousness. 

Its like you're asking, "how the hell are you able to turn off healing yourself when you're given a placebo antibiotic that's actually made of salt rather than antibiotics". 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Fran11 said:

Fanatic psychonauts should study the occult. So that you stop understimating what sober conciousness can do by projecting your own level onto others. You'll be amazed when you meet people who can do things you can't do no matter what dose of mashrooms you take.

There exist many people on this Earth who have been born with supernatural spiritual abilities which are beyond anything achievable by normal human physiology.

To compare ourselves to such people is foolish and delusional.

Yes, there are some people who can close their eyes and trip deeper than if they smoked DMT. There also exist people who can do incredible math calculations in their heads. But these are freaks of nature and you will never be able to match their results sober no matter how long you meditate or practice math. Because their neuro-chemistry is simply different than yours. They have natural psychedelics in their bloodstream by birth.

The truth is that you will never reach the level of consciousness of a Sadhguru, Jesus, or Buddha. They are supernatural freaks of nature.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Leo Gura Watch this: 

 

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The truth is that you will never reach the level of consciousness of a Sadhguru, Jesus, or Buddha. They are supernatural freaks of nature.

They are also just story characters in a collective impersonal mind. I only want to be as conscious as Voldemort was. You'll never find my horcruxes. 

 

[Fran11]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There exist many people on this Earth who have been born with supernatural spiritual abilities which are beyond anything achievable by normal human physiology.

To compare ourselves to such people is foolish and delusional.

Yes, I recognize that and I understand the value of having peak experiences. 

But whatever baseline level a particular indivudual can reach, he will do it mostly by everyday conciousness work, not by tripping (although it's better to do both of course). 

I use and love psyches, but they get gloryfied as the ultimate spiritual tool when as far as rising your baseline conciousness goes, they are not of much significance.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Fran11

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

as far as rising your baseline conciousness goes, they are not of much significance.

They are limited in that regard.

But the peak experiences are very significant for growth.

You have to be fair here though. Listening to Shunyamurti or attending one of his retreats is certainly not going to raise your baseline level of consciousness either.

You can learn more from DMT than you can from listening to all the gurus on YT. So it's absurd when a YT guru claims that psychedelics are somehow illusory or a distraction because psychedelics are certainly more powerful than any words coming out of a guru's mouth.

If you have a bag of DMT you can ditch all the gurus.

[4201]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Because their neuro-chemistry is

Oh wow, there's no me! But what about the subconcious mind?

Oh wow, there's no subconscious mind! But what about the ego?

Oh wow, there's no ego! But what about the brain?

Oh wow, there's no brain! But what about the neuro-chemistry?

 

I don't blame you, I always do the same thing. The mind has infinitely many sneaky ways to create a "me" even long after realizing no me.

Edited August 27, 2020 by 4201

[Fran11]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to be fair here though. Listening to Shunyamurti or attending one of his retreats is certainly not going to raise your baseline level of consciousness either.

You can learn more from DMT than you can from listening to all the gurus on YT. So it's absurd when a YT guru claims that psychedelics are somehow illusory or a distraction because psychedelics are certainly more powerful than any words coming out of a guru's mouth.

Of course, we're the same page on that one. 

But don't you think you are being unfair with everyday conciousness work saying it takes 40 years of meditating on a cave in order to achieve something significant? 

I've been doing conciousness work for five years now and I can go into Samadhi while meditating (can't control it much and it's not as deep as on psyches, granted, but still). 

If an average person practices seriously he/she will become orders of magnitud more concious over a couple years. Even if this level is not as high as what you can achieve in psychedelics, it will improve everyday life more than having had a peak of full God-conciousness. 

Again, I recognize the value of such peaks and I am very pro psychedelics, but long term practices are just irreplaceble. 

 

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

If an average person practices seriously he/she will become orders of magnitud more concious over a couple years.

That's far too optimistic in my experience.

[WaveInTheOcean]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's far too optimistic in my experience.

Not if combined with psychedelics:-)

Spiritual practice (contemplation, retreats, meditation, self-inquiry, reading, watching videos, etc.) go hand-in-hand with pychedelics.

They amplify each other.