Brain/mind growth after 25/30...?

[Matt23]

I've come across this idea that people's brains (thus minds I presume) stop growing and developing at around 25 to 30 years old.  

Though, I've also come across different resources indicating neuroplasticity and brain growth can extend beyond these years.

What are your views about this?

Do you think it's more that particular aspects of the mind/brain stop developing or get pruned rather than an overall loss of functioning?  Like creativity and fluid intelligence being reduced while other aspects might increase, like wisdom functions (perspective, humility, non-reactivity, tolerance, thoughtfulness, etc.), discipline, and perhaps even general acceptance.

Or do you think it's possible to maintain and even grow in things like creativity, fluid intelligence, and cognitive abilities (memory, mental quickness, logic, holding many perspectives at once, working through and learning complex concepts, etc.)?

I think I'm asking since I fear my creativity and aspects of my mind like cognitive skills will be decaying as I age (I'm 28), and that I'll not be able to actualize my life purpose or develop myself much and get to a point where I'm enjoying being a creator, etc.

To me, not considering my limiting beliefs or fears, I could see how brain development can occur long after 25 and 30 years old even though brain development and functioning (in areas more like creativity and cognitive skills) probably drops as you age.  Though, it might not be as simple as losing certain abilities of mind in that it might be more of a shift from one type of mind to another (i.e., from a less mature perhaps more agile and robust mind to a more mature perhaps more wise mind) with either type of mind having strengths and weaknesses.

Any studies, videos, people or resources relating to the topic definitely welcome

 

May the growth be with you.

 

[Artsu]

In terms of spiral dynamics, different people will plateau at different ages, but 25 to 30 is a common age range that the plateau happens.

[Ya know]

It's interesting. I've heard the claim that fluid intelligence decreases with age (around 25 when the brain is ''fully grown'') but these findings are limited to evidence.. and we know how sketchy that realm can be.

 

I say don't allow a consensus to put a limit on what you think you can achieve. In my opinion, certainly cognitive function declines in middle age, but that's based upon the lowest common denominator. The majority of society consumes poison on an almost daily basis, takes no interest in consciousness, watches entertainment constantly and rarely self reflects. Snowball those habits for a few years and it's no surprise the brain prunes the ability to think creatively - the environment does not require it.

 

Is it possible to grow beyond 25? Yeah dude. The more you grow to be a more loving person (in tune with the universe) the more you will see reality clearly. With enhanced perception comes the ability to synthesize information others cannot - which is the backbone of creativity. Manifesting something out of the unmanifested. 

[soos_mite_ah]

35 minutes ago, Artsu said:

In terms of spiral dynamics, different people will plateau at different ages, but 25 to 30 is a common age range that the plateau happens.

When it comes to the plateau, a lot of it has to do when you start settling down with your life more. So if you decide to settle down and never leave your home town at 18, you're more likely to plateau earlier than 25-30. 

In sociology, I was researching some stuff on generational differences. The ages roughly from 15-25 are known as your formative years. During those ages, you're old enough to critically think and take in the world but you're young enough to where you don't have so many experiences and because of that, historical events during one's formative years are seen as the most impactful. Baby boomers are more likely to cite the Vietnam war as the most impactful in modern american history while the generation before them cite World War 2 as the most impactful for example. 

Also in the ages of 15-25, people tend to rack up a lot of different life experiences and as a result they are more prone to change. These things can include but aren't limited to first romantic relationships, moving across the country, getting a career, going to college etc. Once people turn 25-30 ish, there aren't as many firsts or as many changes in people's life circumstances which means growth and personality tends to stagnate because of increase stability. Also, it's important to note that around 25-30 people start having kids and spouses meaning its harder to get up and leave for new experiences and turn their life all the way around since their decisions impact other people. As long as you find a way to take in new experiences and perspectives regularly, I don't think you should have a problem with stagnating. It's just that those new experiences and perspectives are more built in when you're younger and you're more of a blank slate to take in those experiences. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Do you think it's more that particular aspects of the mind/brain stop developing or get pruned rather than an overall loss of functioning?  Like creativity and fluid intelligence being reduced while other aspects might increase, like wisdom functions (perspective, humility, non-reactivity, tolerance, thoughtfulness, etc.), discipline, and perhaps even general acceptance.

Or do you think it's possible to maintain and even grow in things like creativity, fluid intelligence, and cognitive abilities (memory, mental quickness, logic, holding many perspectives at once, working through and learning complex concepts, etc.)?

Speaking of being a blank slate, I think that can be the reason why fluid intelligence and creativity can be seen more with young people since they have less limitations in their perspective because of limited experiences. Like wise things like wisdom, perspective and non reactivity increases with life experience. 

[Michal__]

Yes, you can drastically improve your cognitive functions with serious meditation...

And maybe take some adaptogens to aid your meditation and other aspects of life.

[Max_V]

@Michal__ Any sources on meditation developing cognitive functioning? I always related it more so to aiding with focus, mindfulness, and growth in consciousness.

 

[fridjonk]

I'd take wisdom over intelligence any day of the week. Don't stress about this, there are many ways in which you can keep the brain healthy, like omega fatty acids, blueberries, avocadoes, exercise, lions mane mushroom, etc. 

And I wouldn't mix mind with brain. The brain is that which makes you function in the body and aids your survival. The mind is that which you use to create reality around you and creates the you that worries about things like these. Mind over matter. 

[Michal__]

1 hour ago, Max_V said:

@Michal__ Any sources on meditation developing cognitive functioning? I always related it more so to aiding with focus, mindfulness, and growth in consciousness.

 

I might post some when I have the time to research it again. Concentration is cognitive function. Noting also develops cognitive function, but in a different way. When I talk about concentration I mean Jhãnas (which basically make your brain and body way healthier - most people Are unhealthy) - search Frank Yang, literally his whole face changed as a result of heavy meditation. 

Also try reading after a meditation session (with concentration-oriented technique), you will absorb information like a sponge.

[meow_meow]

My primary school math teacher is now ~ 90 years old and understands how computers work, calculates and is able to pay her own bills via online, understands and can calculate loan percentages (she pays for her son) etc.

On the other hand mu friends dad, who is ~50 years old and has abused alcohol for the last 6 or so years, doesn't even understand whats being said to him, you have to repeat each sentence slowly and clearly for him to understand.

I think human brain is like a muscle, it needs to be properly trained for it to function properly all trough life.

[Consept]

I found this study very interesting and relevant to this topic 

 

[Himanshu]

 

Your body-mind adapts to the degree of challenges it has to face every day. If you increase the challenge, you increase their capability. If you keep seeking novel experiences and keep pushing the limits of your body-mind.. keep exploring new ways of thinking, feeling, and being.. You will keep growing. 

As someone else pointed out, if you don't step out of the house after you are 18, you have hit a plateau. 

The thing is.. the collective drag of culture to settle is huge - and you have to proactively work against it.

Also, bigger, denser brain = high conceptual capacity. There are nootropics for just that. 

 

[Arcangelo]

17 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Though, I've also come across different resources indicating neuroplasticity and brain growth can extend beyond these years.

What are your views about this?

I think our brains are neuroplastic  until the day we die. IDK about brain growth.

 

15 hours ago, Artsu said:

In terms of spiral dynamics, different people will plateau at different ages, but 25 to 30 is a common age range that the plateau happens.

Only if you stop self actualizing.

 

5 hours ago, meow_meow said:

who is ~50 years old and has abused alcohol for the last 6 or so years,

Yeah I poisoned myself too, from 16yo to 32yo. Now that I am almost 9 years sober I can feel the difference and the regeneration.

[Matt23]

@Consept Holy fuck.... that's incredible.  

[Artsu]

Since a couple people mentioned it... you don't need to leave the house in order to develop.

Change takes place internally.

[Raphael]

@Artsu Actually, I think that this is needed.

Change happen internally only if we do the proper things and many of those things are dependent of the external environment. So quitting the family home, exploring new cities, new countries are very important for change.

[soos_mite_ah]

@Artsu I mean not leaving the home town is one example of not taking in experiences. I'm sure if you really tried, you could expand your experiences and delve into perspectives without making a large change like that.

But I still think its quicker and more effective to change surroundings and just get out there

[Matt23]

@Artsu I don't know if I totally agree with that.  Are you saying that internal change is what really matters, and precedes real external change.  For example, if I'm scared of jumping off buildings, I could overcome that fear internally and then that would constitute real change rather than me going out and skydiving?

If this is what you mean, I can see your argument, and I think there's some truth in what you're saying.  I'd still say that externals can play a role in changing oneself as well; like, for example, overcoming a fear of heights by progressively diving off higher and higher jumping boards.  Also, I can see how external changes in behavior are in fact changes as well (even if the internals are the same).  Though, I can see how in terms of psychological development, changing one's internals would be the metric to judge change and growth (mostly). 

I guess I kind of agree with you, but I also find it hard to imagine development happening without any connection to externals.

• Maybe I see it like, if I grow internally and don't do anything with it, what's the point?  
• Maybe I think that internal growth should lead to something and have tangible results.
• I dunno...

They just seem so intertwined to me and I find it might not be helpful to solely do internal work, like there's many traps to doing solely that.  

What @Raphael & @soos_mite_ah made me think of was how we can get super stuck in our bubbles, perspectives, and paradigms if we only do internal work and don't explore externals.  Makes me think of how artists and creators get inspired by experiencing new things, new people, new cities, etc.  I also think of how a farmer who grew up in the same town he was born in, no matter how creative, imaginative, and open-minded, would be way more limited in his creative output and novelty compared to a farmer from the same town who went and traveled the world for 20 years.  The latter would have way more experience and material to draw upon.  

 

[soos_mite_ah]

@Matt23 With internal and external change, I feel like it's one of the chicken or egg type of situations. 

You can have internal change that can lead to external change. Let's say you get clear about your mental health and self esteem issues without externally changing much and then now you decide to leave your abusive partner and get a more fulfilling job. 

You can have external change that can lead to internal change. One example is moving to another country and having to adjust what you think of the world because you're exposed to a new society. 

Also I think depth of experience can carry a weight as well. Like you could grow more if you stick to one place and settle down and really delve into one career instead of running around the world hedonisticly (drawing this distinction since some people like to use travel as a distraction from growth) like a crazy chicken with no head. The hedonist that's running around may make a lot of external changes but not always internal ones. I guess the difference there is how conscious you are about your experiences. 

Maybe being conscious about your experiences are what propels your growth. Change, whether internal or external, can provide a contrast to different unconscious parts of ourselves. For example with travelling, sometimes we think something is inherent or normal until we go to a different country where they don't do something the same way. Prior to that, we weren't even thinking of that thing in question. It was unconscious. Similarly, and internal example would be how awareness alone can be curative. 

I guess sometimes with older people, there is more tendency with stagnation because habits and routines can change how conscious you are in your day to day since habits in routines means we don't have to think as much and can just go on autopilot. You're more likely to be on your toes with changing circumstance

Edited August 24, 2020 by soos_mite_ah

[Brittany]

"If you are turning 40 and you don't understand that you are still a baby. You are making a huge mistake. Change your perspective. And change your life." - Gary Vee

[Thought Art]

Pretty sure you can keep learning new things throughout your whole life. You know, years ago they believed that you can't run or be an athlete at age 60... which isn't true I know lots of great cyclists in there 60s (though the definitely are not young). I think we can keep learning and in fact as long as we use our life long learning to increase our health, ability to learn, eat properly, get the body working etc... I think we can keep learning all through life. Not sure what the plateau is because most 20-25 year olds are not successful, but can do so later in life. Charles Bukowski didn't start writing till he was 35 and drank heavily his whole life. I don't think he found success until his 50s.... Keep Going!

Edited August 26, 2020 by Thought Art