Justifying The Unpleasant Nature Of Reality

[dyslexicCnut]

2 minutes ago, Member said:

@dyslexicCnut You don't know me so keep your biases to yourself. Also, trying to sound smartass won't make you a smartass, dumbass.

Don't feel too bad, this forum is filled to the brim with people like yourself. I genuinely considered closing the original post with "My petty untamed ego-mind will unavoidably take offense to the foreseeable onslaught of people commenting just to appease their own pet theories rather than to address the very specific point of the thread." I don't need intimate knowledge of your likeness to judge how devoid of thought your input was. I understand this is probably more forthrightness than you're accustom to, but it's time somebody clue you in on how this behavior comes off to rational people.

[bejapuskas]

@Member @dyslexicCnut  Please go back to the topic, nonduality wars like this are not allowed here.

[gswva]

God is evil. Everyone is in outright denial. It's all about sucking the happiness out of nonexistence like an infinitely powerful pump. It doesn't matter if you sugarcoat it with nice words/arts/whatever, just because it "feels good" doesn't mean that it is actually good. Stop questioning and go back suffering for me, slave. uwu

Edited September 3, 2020 by gswva

[Breakingthewall]

19 hours ago, dyslexicCnut said:

Definitely easier said. I've been following your thread about your unfavorable breakthrough experience and it's good to see most of your doubts about the experience have seemingly been dispelled. I'm curious whether you would recommend trying 5meo without a trip sitter. Having moved to Las Vegas I don't have anyone here I could try it with, but I still want to do

I tried with a trip sitter but I didn't feel relaxed, and I haven't the breakthrough...I guess that increasing the dose at the end happens. At the end I did alone smoking 5 mg, and thinking, let's enjoy of the effect of 5 mg, after another 5, and I thought...it's almost, let's stop and another day I'll do...but at the end I thought another day is never, and I was like high with the other 10 so I smoked another 5 and I had that breakthrough that you read. It was the first ego death in my life and as I experienced only the nothingness I got like horror feeling at the end, when the "I" started to come back. I'm sure that for many people that nothingness could be really beautiful. Now I think I'm going to go to that nothingness until I love the nothingness, I'm not looking for god experience for now, if comes, cames, I want experience that nothingness that scared me until I love it. Good luck with your trip! I recommend you to do, even it's a bad trip it's a huge teaching

Edited September 3, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[The0Self]

Reality is working to save itself from untruth and pain and unnecessary suffering. Through a process of Self-discovery. Save itself from who? From itself. This painful process is the cure in itself.

Edited September 3, 2020 by The0Self

[traveler]

The spirituality many people speak of on this forum is a fairytale. People preach about awakening and non duality without the slightest idea of what it actually points too. There is no plane or state that you enter when you awaken. Awakening is awakening to the reality that there is no planes or states, all of that is a dream. There is nothing, there never was something. This is an explosion of utter emptiness beyond comprehension, an emptiness that engulfs the whole of existence. There is no place to go, there is no place to escape, this is all there is, LITERALLY. ALL THERE IS. All there is, is infinite, it has no outside, you can not measure it. The birth of the "I" is destined for disaster, it will look endlessly for something, but all it will ever find is the shaddow of nothing. This is terrible news for you ? 

These words are the absolute, the one speaking. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

55 minutes ago, traveler said:

There is no plane or state that you enter when you awaken. Awakening is awakening to the reality that there is no planes or states, all of that is a dream. There is nothing, there never was something. This is an explosion of utter emptiness beyond comprehension, an emptiness that engulfs the whole of existence. There is no place to go, there is no place to escape, this is all there is, LITERALLY. ALL THERE IS. All there is, is infinite, it has no outside, you can not measure it. The birth of the "I" is destined for disaster, it will look endlessly for something, but all it will ever find is the shaddow of nothing. This is terrible news for you ? 

I saw that in my non ego experience, the infinite void. But it's a problem with your thesis: the illusion is not "nothing", is something. Even a thought or a dream are something...so, from where the dream that we are comes? From the nothingness? So the nothingness is dreaming...a nothingness do nothing...the birth of the "I" is destined for disaster you said...so the I has birth. From the nothingness. Like the thoughts. They came from the nothingness. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Breakingthewall

[traveler]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I saw that in my non ego experience, the infinite void. But it's a problem with your thesis: the illusion is not "nothing", is something. Even a thought or a dream are something...so, from where the dream that we are comes? From the nothingness? So the nothingness is dreaming...a nothingness do nothing

It does not come from anywhere, it is nothingness appearing as that. When we talk about the experience of the dream we need to tell stories, because the dream is not actually happening. This appearance, this exact appearance (but not exclusively this appearance) is nothingness. It is not nothingness becoming the appearance, that would create a distance between the appearance and nothingness. It is just fresh, totally unique, never recyclable pure creativity. This can not be recognized by the dreamer though, because in the dream this is known as something tangible and real. The dream is pure creativity appearing as boring known dead stuff, the dreamer is boundlessness appearing bound.

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, traveler said:

It is just fresh, totally unique, never recyclable pure creativity.

Creativity that comes from what? I saw that my substance is the nothingness, so I'm nothing, you are nothing, but you are concious that you are nothing...how?

1 hour ago, traveler said:

 

 

[The0Self]

Existence needs nothing. Nothing needs existence.

[traveler]

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Creativity that comes from what? I saw that my substance is the nothingness, so I'm nothing, you are nothing, but you are concious that you are nothing...how?

 

There is no one here that knows this, nothing is not a thing owned and known by someone. There is nothing to realize, when the excessive attempts to realize this, stops happening, then it is realized that there is nothing to realize.

Edited September 4, 2020 by traveler

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Creativity that comes from what? I saw that my substance is the nothingness, so I'm nothing, you are nothing, but you are concious that you are nothing...how?

Consciousness / not a thing / infinite potentiality vibrates at a multitude of frequencies and thus infinite being is being ‘reality’ by vibrationally appearing to itself, as itself, by itself. Vibration / oscillation / appearance is experientially probabilistic, that there may be experience / creation. This place is your creativity. 

‘Your” ‘substance’ is everythingness, you’re everything. Ideally, every time the word nothingness is used, it would be immediately followed by fullness, wholeness, or maybe completeness...to articulate absoluteness (not-two; empty & full), or more specifically, that absolute can’t be thought (thinking=twoness / appearance). Maybe...a mirage can’t think desert because the only reality of mirage is desert. Awareness can’t think awareness, because thought is the mirage, yet creation of awareness. 

(Minus relative linguistics) you are conscious you are nothing be default of having scrutinized and ruled out that you are something. 

[Some Fella]

@dyslexicCnut

I'm not an expert at this stuff by ANY means, but from what I personally have learned, here is my advice.

 

1. Honestly, just chill out, bro. I struggled with similar contemplations for months & really worked myself up into a lot of emotional turmoil over them. So my advice to you & my former self is first of all just to relax. We will get through this, it will be ok. Suffering exists? Ok, suffering exists. It's here? Ok, it's here. Cool, we have noticed that suffering is here. That's a good first step. That's step one completed.

 

2. Stop thinking

- All the questions that you asked. What are they? Thoughts.

- All the desires to have them answered? What's that? If it's not thoughts, we can probably agree that it exists in the same sort-of sensory substratum that thought does, i.e. this kind of mental-thoughty-emotiony sensory field. We might even call this a/the 'mind' per se (not metaphysical super magical mystical mind, but rather more akin to just the traditional definition of mind or what our culture tells us is mind). To make it more specific, we could instead replace 'mind' with this label: the sensory field in which mental phenomena (the senses: thoughts, emotions, feelings too subtle to be called emotions, etc) all are occuring within. Think of this like how if sights happen in the visual field, sounds in the auditory field, tastes in the taste field, etc, etc, then emotions & thoughts happen in the mental/mind sensory field. The point is not the title of this sensory field, but just noticing what I'm trying to point to & then kindly putting a cork in it.

- So what happens when we stop thinking? That's where you come in, @dyslexicCnut ! You have to stop thinking & see what happens!

- How to know when you've stopped thinking long enough & deeply enough: this issue of sufferings existence doesn't bug you anymore & you can get on with your life.

^if you're wondering what i mean by 'deeply', continue to not think until the afformentioned mental/mind sensory field drops into a state of barren & spacious emptiness. The more barren (the less thoughts/feelings), the 'deeper'.

3. Observe what remains.

4 (bonus). Read Nahm's first reply, it's very spot on, based on my personal experience.

I'm almost a TOTAL novice to this work, but I truly believe that meditation is one of the best gifts that we can give to ourselves. I find that, once I go 'deep' enough into meditative states of mental emptiness & clarity, suffering basically just stops bothering me pretty much all together. I still suffer, but it becomes so small in intensitiy that it just doesn't get to me anymore. Instead of an 'absurd/sick/twisted/psychopathic cosmic joke of an existence', I get a feeling of calm contentedness & a more optimistic outlook! One of my favourite things about meditation is it's accessibility. You don't need illegal drugs or enlightenment or even advice, but can get some good practice at 'figuring this existence business out' instantly right now or with any spare time!

If you want more help with meditation, I recommend downloading the Sam Harris Waking Up phone app (*whispers* if u ask nicely, he gives u the full version for free).

Please, please ask away if you have any questions & I will answer!

[The0Self]

@Some Fella Hey! We don't take kindly to Sam Harris fans around here... lol. He got me into meditation in the first place so I have a soft spot for the man.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

Consciousness / not a thing / infinite potentiality vibrates at a multitude of frequencies and thus infinite being is being ‘reality’ by vibrationally appearing to itself, as itself, by itself. Vibration / oscillation / appearance is experientially probabilistic, that there may be experience / creation. This place is your creativity. 

‘Your” ‘substance’ is everythingness, you’re everything. Ideally, every time the word nothingness is used, it would be immediately followed by fullness, wholeness, or maybe completeness...to articulate absoluteness (not-two; empty & full), or more specifically, that absolute can’t be thought (thinking=twoness / appearance). Maybe...a mirage can’t think desert because the only reality of mirage is desert. Awareness can’t think awareness, because thought is the mirage, yet creation of awareness. 

(Minus relative linguistics) you are conscious you are nothing be default of having scrutinized and ruled out that you are something. 

Deep understanding. 

[Nahm]

@Breakingthewall

...and only surfaces.

[arlin]

11 hours ago, traveler said:

There is nothing to realize, when the excessive attempts to realize this, stops happening, then it is realized that there is nothing to realize.

"It is realized" by who??

Are you talking about death?

[traveler]

2 hours ago, arlin said:

"It is realized" by who??

Are you talking about death?

There is nothing I say that will help. In the dream of two there is a constant attempt to solidify the experience, to make it real. The struggle/suffering is the grasping to know something when in reality there is nothing. Nothing is not an empty void of blackness, nothing is incomprehensible, it is this already. Nothing is infinite, it does not look a particular way. When nothing arises as an illusory experience of being separate it brings about suffering, because suddenly there is a real person here that feels like it is missing something, it is actually missing nothing.

The "real" person thinks that it has to somehow get rid of this appearance and reach another better appearance/state to get fulfilled. It can not realize that there is nothing that needs to change for this to be what it already is. It feels like something needs to change, but that movement/feeling is what it is, it IS what the wrongness of the appearance. There is nothing wrong at all, there is no end goal, the person is in search of the actuality of some concept called unconditional Love, not being able to see that it already is all there is.

This is not about death or life, it is not about anything. It is unconditional love appearing as whatever is appearing. There is nothing outside of this appearance, this does not need to be understood, it already is.

 

[arlin]

@traveler Yes but you said that when you die it is realized that there is nothing to realize. Who has that realization?

9 minutes ago, traveler said:

Nothing is infinite

Yeah and it's god and love as you said.

 

10 minutes ago, traveler said:

The "real" person thinks that it has to somehow get rid of this appearance and reach another better appearance/state to get fulfilled. It can not realize that there is nothing that needs to change for this to be what it already is. It feels like something needs to change,

You are talking like living is useless and invalidating every human being on earth.

 

[traveler]

30 minutes ago, arlin said:

Yeah and it's god and love as you said.

You can call it whatever you want but it is not the words. The words are pointers. The person lives in the psychic world of pointers. It is like saying that a cup is actually the appearance of the cup, it isn't. The actual appearance of the cup is unknowable, it is just what it is, we can call it an elephant, a windmill, a turd, nothing actually touches the actuality of the cup because there is no actual separation in which it is solid and real and is bound to anything, everything is just what it is.

30 minutes ago, arlin said:

Yes but you said that when you die it is realized that there is nothing to realize. Who has that realization?

It is not realized by anyone. There is nothing to realize because there is not two, already. Now you'll try to realize that.

 

30 minutes ago, arlin said:

You are talking like living is useless and invalidating every human being on earth.

No, I'm just describing what seems to happen in the dream. What I'm pointing to is simple, there is no one here trying to convince you of anything. It can not be gotten, because trying to get it, is in the way. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by traveler