EU trying to help Belarusian people.

[Opo]

EU leaders had a conference today about what is happening in Belarus.

They thankfully decided that they fully support Belarusian people and that election results were fraudulent. They will put sanctions on Belarus and try to get a peaceful transition to democracy.

Putin is supporting the Belarusian leader because he is afraid that he is next if Belarus gets democracy.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/19/eu-leaders-to-discuss-next-steps-for-belarus

[Lyubov]

Putin can't send in little green men in on this one. I'm worried about a Tiananmen situation going down though. 

[Opo]

53 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Putin can't send in little green men in on this one. I'm worried about a Tiananmen situation going down though. 

I think it would start a revolution if they did that. Atleast entire world would hit the streets and EU would do what it can to destroy their economy.

I wonder how would Trump react. 

 

[Lyubov]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-20/spokeswoman-russian-opposition-politician-navalny-poisoned?sref=kKj7hWAI

Russian Opposition Politician Navalny Poisoned: Spokeswoman

 

the face of the Russian opposition is apparently in a hospital on a ventilator and in critical condition after an apparent poisoning this weekend. This Belarus situation must have really terrified Putin. I don't see how this will help things. I guess if he dies there will be protests in Russia and Putin will be able to stomp them out more easily than the ones in Belarus. I guess this may then lead to the ones in Belarus stopping? 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Lyubov

[Opo]

4 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I don't see how this will help things. I guess if he dies there will be protests in Russia and Putin will be able to stomp them out more easily than the ones in Belarus. I guess this may then lead to the ones in Belarus stopping? 

If people get sick of it enough he won't be able to stomp them out. Idn if that will happen now but the more stuff like this happens the angrier people become. 

I don't think Belarusians will stop they seem ready for a democracy and now is their time when they have the support. 

[fridjonk]

It's incredibly important that the EU stays strong and shows support to those who need it, even if that means going against superpower nations. 

Europe leads the way in getting this world more peaceful. 

[Opo]

55 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

You failed history classes. 

I know we had a few oopsies but now there is a lot of green and I think we are doing pretty good. I know there is still a lot of fucked up stuff but i think EU will be first to transcend it and push other countries with it. 

[fridjonk]

1 hour ago, zeroISinfinity said:

You failed history classes. 

?

[Milos Uzelac]

On 8/20/2020 at 9:17 AM, Opo said:

If people get sick of it enough he won't be able to stomp them out. Idn if that will happen now but the more stuff like this happens the angrier people become. 

I don't think Belarusians will stop they seem ready for a democracy and now is their time when they have the support. 

 

I don't why you there is isn't at least an attempt at more rigour and skepticism in your guys appraoch to international poltical news events that you get from whatever sources you might be getting them from and atleast trying to formulate your own authentic takes on them. This sub-forum is indeed generally intended for the purpose of cultivating and practicing on giving a nuanced take on politics, not just mindlessly repeating phrases what news sources with entrenched intrerests have in an event in the world.

The name of this thread: ''EU want's to help Belarusian people'' is such an disingenious, heavily biased or ignorant way to phrase and incorrect way to frame a move by the EU to put sanctions on Belarus because of repeated election fraud and irregularities and violence against pro-Western and EU protesters (that are 17-20% of the country) and some large state industrial worker unions that joined them in urbanized areas in the capitol for now, form what I have seen on the news. Such phrasing in my opinion is not proper political discussion about the topic it's just confirmation bias of a worldview and an intent to convince more people in uncritically adopting it and in going along of what you have to say - which is the point of any ideology, it's targeting and indoctrination of the audience, only today it's done in subtle way for people who think they live in the apex places of human and technological progress to buy them, when forming their opinions on the rest of the world's countries that don't encompass that sphere.

15 hours ago, Opo said:

I know we had a few oopsies but now there is a lot of green and I think we are doing pretty good. I know there is still a lot of fucked up stuff but i think EU will be first to transcend it and push other countries with it. 

The terming of oopsie for the EU's and other affiliated international monetary institutions policies for the post-soviet bloc of countries is incredibly biased and ignorant which produces and reveals a coldly callous, introspection free and irreverent attitude in wanting to know the people's of those countries historical and political experiences with EU, IMF, WB and European Bank privatization and market economic shock doctrine policies effect on the decline of general living standard and wages of massive swathes of the population in those countries and their contemporary job security and employment rates in comparision to their employment rates, job security and wages in state-owned industries and services that were bought and privatized over night by oligarchic bussiness cliques allowed to do that and run rampant with their, sometimes barely legal investing and profiteering with no state regulation or economic and labor legal constraint - in what was general academic consensus in terming a gangster capitalist's economies in the 90's and early 00's, which remnants are still overbearinlgy present in the reality of living in post-Soviet bloc countries.

And also the recorded mass of more debt all those countries states are in now towards international monetary institutions and European and American Banks than before and the relative debt peonage positions that the populations of those countries are now subjected towards and are forced to compensate by importing cheap products produced by Western corporations and countries which undermines the possibility and ability of them once again having independent and competitive domestic industries and service sectors.

The EU and it's affiliated international political and economic institutions are not at now presently at what's asociated with green consciouness stage based policy and political advocacy, they are orange oportunists and instrumentalists - whose foremost aim is to contain and undermine Russia geopolitically in the region and get those  surviving massive and successful state industries remnants in Belarus that survived the collapse of the Soviet Union in private foreign and loyal investor hands and to ideally install a model of government and parties in it that would allow them do so as much as possible, for them to have a part of economic resource import sway over Belarus as Russia currently has. 

Using spiral dynamics in this deceptive ideological unilineral evolutionist way (these bloc of countries are closer to green, so therefore according to my personal subjective biased view (as citizen living in them and paying taxes to them) and research unsubstantiated assesment I wont criticize or be skeptical of it's officials, institutions, agencies and bussiness narrative to the public (who are somehow in this worldview representitive of the whole consciousness stage of the most conscious part or minute sector of the population of that country) intent to ''help'' by sanctioning or trying to meddle or nefariuosly influence the internal affairs of predominatly blue countries to achieve their business, market and ideologically oriented short-term and long-term goals that benefit their most wealthiest bussinesses and most succesful company conglomerates in their countires, is mind-boggingly biased (akin to nationalist discourse which is against conduct and posting guidelines in this sub-forum) and is almost akin to using the ''white man's burden'' and ''the civilizatory role of the British Empire'' arguments that 19th and 20th century colonial powers used to justify contemporary economic and political neocolonial imperialism of the bloc of countries that are the most economically powerful and dominant in the world that are just now more subtle in it in their narrative framing and PC in their rhetoric (democracy, human rights buzzwords) towards eastern countries and the developing third world whose labor their transnationals now again exploit.

On 8/20/2020 at 2:23 PM, fridjonk said:

It's incredibly important that the EU stays strong and shows support to those who need it, even if that means going against superpower nations. 

Europe leads the way in getting this world more peaceful. 

14 hours ago, fridjonk said:

?

You may think we are not serious but you people sometimes truly look to some of us and sound like complacent sheep with the phrasing of your political beliefs and opinions that justify the always meddling and interventionist attitude and justify global injustices perpetuated in your countries favor. They sound and appear like in an online text format as if they were only exclusivelly swalowed and reguirated from western media corps and their partnered big companies narrative about a particular country not being fully aligned with Western countries interests, that they try to sell to the general public watching to justify at the worst case a foreign interevention by their countries militaries, meddling and propagandistic performance of their ambassdors,  and/or politicians (check out, if you haven't, the example of what did the current Democratic Presidential Candidate Biden, then as the Vice-President of a another massive global influential country, do in the beginnings of the Ukraine crisis 2014 and which people and parties did he endorse as fighting for Ukrainine independence and democracy against Russian influence (hint- they were leaders and members of extreme right Russophobic Ukrainine fascists and neo-Nazis parties) at the best case their bought and ideologically loyal candidate to further their business and more broadly geostrategic interest in the region that now has another internal crisis that they had their eye on for a longer time.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Opo]

@Milos Uzelac tl;dr

[Milos Uzelac]

22 minutes ago, Opo said:

@Milos Uzelac tl;dr

Perfect dissmisive mental attitude towards reading and engaging with written text and for taking visual and spoken propaganda as fact and reality and not being critical towards it, just so you know. That's how they get you not protest anything or to fight to hold them to account for their lies and harmful interventions elsewhere in the world.

I would really appreciate if you could muster a counter-argument towards what I have written because it would at least show your willing to be in mental state to critically engage with politics and world-events in which you indirectly participate as citizen and taxpayer of a country or countries that engages in them for it's own corps and bussiness benefit.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Opo]

32 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

Perfect dissmisive mental attitude towards reading and engaging with written text and for taking visual and spoken propaganda as fact and reality and not being critical towards it, just so you know. That's how they get you not protest anything or to fight to hold them to account for their lies and harmful interventions elsewhere in the world.

I would really appreciate if you could muster a counter-argument towards what I have written because it would at least show your willing to be in mental state to critically engage with politics and world-events in which you indirectly participate as citizen and taxpayer of a country or countries that engages in them for it's own corps and bussiness benefit.

Lol sry I tried to trigger you with tldr. I meant to read it just had to do something first. 

Agree it was ideological and that i potrayed EU as being better than it is overall. I know we do some fcked up stuff that's why I thought calling it an oopsie was funny. 

How do you feel for example about EU taking away money from Poland because they discriminated LGBT people? 

What do you think how would other countries compare to the west if they were the strongest? 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Opo

Appreciate the honesty in coming out with the intent with you behaviour.

I am sorry as well for comingtoo much defensive and as if I am personally attacked

(when mentioning and writing about those ee countries and their EU relationship abstractly online) and also accusatory with my attitude towards your, from my perceived attitude and POV about your intentions and beliefs in this thread. Just felt that personally attached, since I am currently located and a part, as citizen, of this ee bloc of countries and their EU relationship, and I felt obligated to set the record straight from the way this thread was going when talking about this topic and tell a perspective from my POV about it in a role as a relatively active participant of this sub-forum on society and politics. 

So I apologise again for the perhaps on my side the sprunged up unpleasant attitude towards you personally on my part in this discussion about other countries EU relationship and citizenship topic. 

I think I am in a slightly different timezone than you, since it's long past am, so I would see to answer the question that you asked me regarding some moves of the EU on the mostly

cultural front in their member states tommorow if it is not a problem. Thanks for being kind to ask my personal opinion on it anyway, as if I am some kind of expert on it and not  really just partially, and mostly lazily informed on international politics stuff and really  modest at best in my knowledge currently ??

18 hours ago, Opo said:

I know we had a few oopsies but now there is a lot of green and I think we are doing pretty good. I know there is still a lot of fucked up stuff but i think EU will be first to transcend it and push other countries with it. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Opo]

6 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

@Opo I think I am in a slightly different timezone than you, since it's long past am, so I would see to answer the question that you asked me regarding some moves of the EU on the mostly

cultural front in their member states tommorow if it is not a problem. 

Im from Croatia btw we aren't that far apart. 

Of course it's not a problem. Sleep well. 

[Milos Uzelac]

@Opo Heh sorry I didn't realize we were basically neighbours, I thought you were in a more farther away and richer and more developed EU country (though sorry I am not desiring to sh*t talk Croatia on that front she has made quite a bit of a progress over the last few years) , sorry mb for stereotyping you into a preconceived notion of mein when someone says he is in an EU country ?

Hehe... We could have had this discussion in former one of Yugoslavia official languages Serbo-Croatian (almost the same cultural development of almost the same spoken language) couldn't we not, well not here but in private messaging correspondence ?

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Opo]

23 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

@Opo Heh sorry I didn't realize we were basically neighbours, I thought you were in a more farther away and richer and more developed EU country (though sorry I am not desiring to sh*t talk Croatia on that front she has made quite a bit of a progress over the last few years) , sorry mb for stereotyping you into a preconceived notion of mein when someone says he is in an EU country ?

I understand what you mean thank God i grew up in a more developed state of this country. It's hard sometimes to believe how different it was even 20 years ago let alone more. 

26 minutes ago, Milos Uzelac said:

@Opo Hehe... We could have had this discussion in former one of Yugoslavia official languages Serbo-Croatian (almost the same cultural development of almost the same spoken language) couldn't we not, well not here but in private messaging correspondence ?

Yea i wanted to write in our language few times on this forum but then i remember the guidelines. 

[Opo]

14 hours ago, Opo said:

@Milos Uzelac How do you feel for example about EU taking away money from Poland because they discriminated LGBT people? 

What do you think how would other countries compare to the west if they were the strongest? 

Could you please answer these questions if you forgot. I wana hear your opinion. 

[Milos Uzelac]

3 hours ago, Opo said:

Could you please answer these questions if you forgot. I wana hear your opinion. 

Yeah I will address it a bit later shortly after I do some stuff I have to, though I don't think, personally, it's not a critical issue for understanding the EU  's role and goals for Europe. 

[diamondpenguin]

If beluras joins the EU, it will expand the the union to get closer to globalization and globalism. One step closer to nirvana. One step closer to paradise. 

[Milos Uzelac]

43 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

If beluras joins the EU, it will expand the the union to get closer to globalization and globalism. One step closer to nirvana. One step closer to paradise. 

Yes in a perfect linear progression contradiction free and injustice free world where everyone gets the same outcome from an event.

But the real world of relationships between humans in different countries, societies and cultures doesn't work that way, it is full of perceived commited mutual injustices and ills where one group, country, culture is treated better and fairer than the other, which makes linear progression growth path where everyone gets on board with it literally impossible.

These contradictions and injustices from technological and cultural progression stem exactly from the way they are generated by favoring one part of a world over another or using and exploiting one part of the world for a benefit another, essentially making, equal treatment and progression where everyone can get on board impossible, without backclashes, conflicts and internal contradictions within the way progression in the world is manifested. 

Globalization and globalism in today's form and written and spoken usage (related to a contemporary globalised form of capitalism as our dominant way of production and consumption that makes our survival in contemporary complex and interconnected societial systems possible) is another ideological worldview point, of the ruling classes in the countries that espouse it, that is prescribing their norms of what progression of the world ought be like and look like and that suits their own interests in having the meaning of the word progression entail that narrow meaning and viewpoint that coincides with their perspective on the world and how and in which way it should go and develop. 

In short it rids the word progression of it's internal contradictions and conflicts that go into its full meaning. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Milos Uzelac