Having kids will regress you into stage red.

[onacloudynight]

If you have kids be prepared to go down into red. There is simply no other way to deal with a stage red child other than to dominate him. He will exploit and abuse your generosity at the higher stages.

[soos_mite_ah]

Kids will normally outgrow that by the time they are 5 or so and at that age, they don't even know how to manipulate people like that. Sure you have to deal with tantrums and the like and therefore have to discipline them but often times going into red yourself as the parent can open doors up to abuse. You don't have to go into red to deal with red, in fact it isn't the best idea especially when it comes to kids. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by soos_mite_ah

[onacloudynight]

@soos_mite_ah How would you deal with red without going down to red yourself? I am curious to know how you would handle a predator, for example, that will resort to anything in his power to get what he wants. Even murder. Would you just accept it unconditionally and allow yourself to be taken advantage of. Or would you try to do anything in your power to get what you want, which is an option to live.

I personally don't see any way that you could deal with red in that scenario without going down into red yourself. I guess it's technically possible not to go down into red, but if you choose to do that, you'll die.

Reminds me of Jesus. Pretty inspirational.

Edited August 19, 2020 by onacloudynight

[Eph75]

Are we comparing small children with predators lurking in the dark waiting for a chance to devour you in one piece? 

Some children sure can seem that way when you watch them interacting with their low consciousness parents, but I ensure that they are not and that they are just responding to the dynamics of the relationship. 

You can talk to children, also very small children and constructive interaction is not only possible but quite easy. Small childen are also very formative and will resond well to such interaction.

"Going red" would not involve constructive formative work. "Going red" just enforces red behavior in the child. That's what happens in lower stage societies and why development of a society takes hundreds of years. There's simply little to no higher cognitive influence in those formative years.

In a spiral wizard manner you can meet red by interacting with red in a way that red resonds well to, that is understood. That is not the same as dropping to the same level. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Eph75

[tsuki]

Children go through various stages. Being on a higher, more integrated stage does not imply that you will not meet a 3 year old on his level. On the contrary, a more developed person would do that more easily. A stage blue parent could potentially demonize child's behavior and rationalize their abuse because it does not fit their worldview. 

It is actually traumatize a child if you try to train him to be 'moral' before he is able to. If a child feels that you as a parent are not able to handle their emotions, then they will learn to fear them because they will think that they are too powerful.

[onacloudynight]

34 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

In a spiral wizard manner you can meet red by interacting with red in a way that red resonds well to, that is understood. That is not the same as dropping to the same level. 

Could you give me an example of how you can interact in a way that red responds well too? Without going into red yourself.

[Michal__]

Well, I think that letting them get what they want by acting like this would teach them to act horribly when they are older. So there has to be a way to then turn then blue, then orange then green. I think school Is enough to pull them into orange. But I have no experience with parenting yet.

[Eph75]

32 minutes ago, onacloudynight said:

Could you give me an example of how you can interact in a way that red responds well too? Without going into red yourself.

What kind of behavior are you after? 

Upbringing is cumulative and starts out on a trivial level, e.g. such things as them saying things like "you are stupid", "he/her/mommy/daddy is stupid". Children will test you to see what goes and what does not in orde to figure out where the boundaries are. Obviously you don't succeed by regressing to getting angy at the child, yelling at him/her and saying "no you are the stupid one" or something demeaning like that. You'd sit down with the kid and explain hos that makes others feel and tune him/her into understanding what it would be like if he/her was the other person. Empathy is base to much and is cultivated, value systems are cultivated and behaviors are cumulative.

Although, people in general tend to do that. They tend to get angry. Or tend to laugh it away. And with that a different cumulative direction starts growing. Or just ignoring them.

(For the record, I have two childen, boys, whom are 17 and 19 years old now) 

Take any given child that has been cultivated e.g. into a strong red for 7-8-9 years, dropped in your care is of course a whole different challenge than raising toddlers.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Eph75

[Michal__]

20 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

What kind of behavior are you after? 

Upbringing is cumulative and starts out on a trivial level, e.g. such things as them saying things like "you are stupid", "he/her/mommy/daddy is stupid". Children will test you to see what goes and what does not in orde to figure out where the boundaries are. Obviously you don't succeed by regressing to getting angy at the child, yelling at him/her and saying "no you are the stupid one" or something demeaning like that. You'd sit down with the kid and explain hos that makes others feel and tune him/her into understanding what it would be like if he/her was the other person. Empathy is base to much and is cultivated, value systems are cultivated and behaviors are cumulative.

Although, people in general tend to do that. They tend to get angry. Or tend to laugh it away. And with that a different cumulative direction starts growing. Or just ignoring them.

(For the record, I have two childen, boys, whom are 17 and 19 years old now) 

Take any given child that has been cultivated e.g. into a strong red for 7-8-9 years, dropped in your care is of course a whole different challenge than raising toddlers.

This

[onacloudynight]

45 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

What kind of behavior are you after? 

Upbringing is cumulative and starts out on a trivial level, e.g. such things as them saying things like "you are stupid", "he/her/mommy/daddy is stupid". Children will test you to see what goes and what does not in orde to figure out where the boundaries are. Obviously you don't succeed by regressing to getting angy at the child, yelling at him/her and saying "no you are the stupid one" or something demeaning like that. You'd sit down with the kid and explain hos that makes others feel and tune him/her into understanding what it would be like if he/her was the other person. Empathy is base to much and is cultivated, value systems are cultivated and behaviors are cumulative.

Although, people in general tend to do that. They tend to get angry. Or tend to laugh it away. And with that a different cumulative direction starts growing. Or just ignoring them.

(For the record, I have two childen, boys, whom are 17 and 19 years old now) 

Take any given child that has been cultivated e.g. into a strong red for 7-8-9 years, dropped in your care is of course a whole different challenge than raising toddlers.

I guess I am asking is what if you sit down and explain to the child how he is making others feel, but he is incapable of understanding empathy and continues to not correct his behavior. I guess I am asking how you would handle a psychopathic child. I see no other way to handle him without going down to his level or just send him off somewhere.

[smurf88]

In most cases, you can avoid Stage Red simply by ignoring it. 
In the case that you have to use Red, you use it. There’s no esoteric secret, you use whatever stage is necessary for the given situation. Of course higher stages are preferable but they won’t always work.

Dealing with a psychopathic child however is a special case, it might be a question for a child care professional.

Edited August 19, 2020 by smurf88

[Artsu]

To an extent you are going to meet a person at their own stage. If you talk to blue, you will become more blue temporarily.

However you still keep your elevated status. (I am referring to higher states of consciousness, not rank)

Surely you notice that people sometimes make you angry, but you keep perspective. The anger can be strong but generally manageable without losing soul composure.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Artsu

[soos_mite_ah]

5 hours ago, onacloudynight said:

@soos_mite_ah How would you deal with red without going down to red yourself? I am curious to know how you would handle a predator, for example, that will resort to anything in his power to get what he wants. Even murder. Would you just accept it unconditionally and allow yourself to be taken advantage of. Or would you try to do anything in your power to get what you want, which is an option to live.

I personally don't see any way that you could deal with red in that scenario without going down into red yourself. I guess it's technically possible not to go down into red, but if you choose to do that, you'll die.

Reminds me of Jesus. Pretty inspirational.

As some of the comments in this thread have said, dealing with toddlers at red =/= dealing with predators and murders (that's a separate issue) lmao 

Have you ever had to deal with a small child? Sure they can be annoying sometimes but they aren't dangerous or psychotic. In fact most of the times they are pretty sweet and not a nightmare lol. 

Just establish some clear boundaries even if they kick and scream and don't stoop down to their level because that fucks them up and teaches them that bullying people works. If they get that type of message, then they won't want to grow out of red down the line. By not responding/ giving in, you'll basically condition them to thinking "hey, maybe kicking and screaming doesn't help me get my way or get me any attention." 

Most kids have empathy even when they are young. They are mainly at stage red because they are still figuring out who they are and building their egos accordingly. You can appeal to their reason/ empathy after they have calmed down with a time out.

Also just because you're at red doesn't mean you're an emotionless psychopath. Honestly, I've seen psychopaths operate in higher stages than red so its not like they are isolated in one particular stage of development. 

[Eph75]

11 hours ago, onacloudynight said:

I guess I am asking is what if you sit down and explain to the child how he is making others feel, but he is incapable of understanding empathy and continues to not correct his behavior.

We're all incapable to do what we don't know how until we learn. We learn through training, by training ourselves or being trained by others as needed. Consistency as a parent is extremely important and if you as a parent is emphatic then that empathy will rub off through your consistent teachings unto the child.

Also that's why development is difficult in terms of areas, countries, societies, populations - the right influence to induce developmental growth is non-existing or low. In these causes, parent can only do as best they know how.

As a parent - and in any teaching or coaching - when you don't get the desired effect, try different angles, approaches, ways and methods.

If the hammer is the only tool you have, every problem looks like a nail  and we revert to more frequency, more force hammering harder or by switching the hammer for a bigger one.

Try a different tool.

Of course all of this also can and should be approached in a preemptive manner. Don't want until things go wrong in shaping children. Work continually and you will have fewer problems of lesser magnitude, and when things go wrong, you have a somewhat solid foundation for both you and the child to stand on.

11 hours ago, onacloudynight said:

I guess I am asking how you would handle a psychopathic child.

Bringing up psychopathy was probably just an example and could have been anything, but as far as I know, psychopathy in particular can't be "cured", psychopaths can be controlled/contained, but not "fixed".

Finally, human behaviors and interactions are complex, there's no one fix-all-cases solution on how to succeed since we all respond differently based on who we are and what history we have. Also children have accumulated experiences that shape them in ways that we can't know. So we need to try, sense how the child responds and then respond accordingly in order to reach those desired outcomes. Also stay attentive and curious towards what it is that we ourselves are not seeing, understanding or that we are assuming or misunderstanding.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Eph75

[Michael569]

17 hours ago, onacloudynight said:

If you have kids be prepared to go down into red.

You don't have to regress to the same stage. Kids need to go through purple and red but if you are at Tier 2, you can make their transition pretty smooth and help them to get to stage Blue, even some healthy orange by the time they enter kindergarten and elementary school. 

Regressing to stage Red means locking them in wardrobe, denying food, denying love, punishing (e.g. slaping fingers with ruler, hitting them with belt and using other non-creative forms of domestic violence - which is what a lot of unconscious parents still do) and yelling at them. This creates more rebellion and more anger. It builds up resentment, creates an emotional separation and makes it extremely difficult for your child to climb spiral. 

Red needs to be approached from a place of love and acceptance, you need to show them to way and love them regardless of what behaviour they display. Just because you don't approve of your child's behaviour does not mean it is wrong, it just is. You went through that stage and so will they, there is just no other way. Trying to control child creates neurotics and they will have to spend years in therapy....or in prison.