Purging Sexual Lustful Desires

[Frogfucius]

Sensual lust is my biggest hang up, and it's causing me much suffering. I'm not as bad as I used to be, but I've become aware that it's the single hardest thing for me to let go of. I can be in a blissful state, living in the present, and then my eyes will see an attractive woman pass by and I'm instantly pulled from my state, and back into desire mode. And from there, the image of her will continue to be in my head, and I'll become neurotic with thoughts.

Not that I don't want a relationship with a woman, but I first want to completely detach from my mind's lack of control in this area. I don't want to engage myself in a relationship from a place of need or lust. Is the only way to rid myself of these desires to continue meditation? Any other practices? I've read about visualizations, i.e. picturing the desired person beyond the layer of their outer skin: picturing the bones, flesh, blood, organs, etc. Is this an effective practice? By the time I do this though, that means I've already engaged instant attraction.

[Matthew Lamot]

@Frogfucius

As you have probably guessed by now (or not) I am an advocate of a practice called Self-Enquiry.

To get a overview of what this is I recommend you reading the large bulk of the posts I have posted here over the last 48 hours.  

To be able to effectively let go of addictions and apparent needs, you need to see that there is no self that these thoughts, feelings and motivations arise TO.

Only when you can directly see that the motivation is only a thought that was fuelled by a non existent entity called a self, is when these motivations drop immediately in front of your eyes and you get a glimpse of what it will be like to be completely liberated from these vasanas.

Meditation will NOT help you here.  Meditation at best might cure the problem given tons upon tons of hours in sitting (8 hours a day for 20 plus years even to get started!) and at worst will distract your attention for the time that it is being forced to hold onto the breath.  This is nothing but suppression and denial.  

So start learning Self-Enquiry and discover for yourself what it can do for you in terms of unwanted desires and thoughts.  At times you will want to go towards the object of your desire.  There is nothing wrong with this, and it is perfectly natural and part of your life path.  But eventually you will come to realize that it is not the glittering shiny apparent prize that holds the attraction, but rather your own deepest Self.

[Matthew Lamot]

@Frogfucius

http://veda.wikidot.com/vasana

[Matthew Lamot]

52 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

the only way to rid myself of these desires 

Let me give you a clue to the practice.  The desires are fine.  There is no need to rid yourself of these feelings.  The secret is to rid yourself of yourself, and then the feelings evaporate into thin air.  Until next time, and then you do the practice again.

You need to adopt the attitude that you have no choice about which feelings manifest in your life.  

Notice that you is a resistance to the feeling.  Put your attention on you and keep your attention on you until you begin to see that the very notion of you is the real problem.  

The moment you see this directly, you will begin to dissolve and the feeling will begin to evaporate.  But the key is that you must observe how you are the resistance problem that that your real self (pure ever present awareness) and its true nature is unconditional acceptance.

Ever present awareness cannot be anything BUT total acceptance of all things, so the "problem" is you, the individual self sense.

[Frogfucius]

@Matthew Lamot Right... So letting go of the self... I've been working on that, and reinforcing that through meditation. I guess I'm on the right path, then. Thanks for the advice.

[Eelco1981]

@Frogfucius David Deida dedicated a whole chapter on a process of enjoying the beauty of women spiritually without acting on it and using this energy positively. I recommend you read the book The Way of the Superior Man.

[Matthew Lamot]

43 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

@Matthew Lamot Right... So letting go of the self... I've been working on that, and reinforcing that through meditation. I guess I'm on the right path, then. Thanks for the advice.

Self Enquiry as the bulk of the practice is quicker and more direct than meditation.  The two practices are diametrically opposite!  Self Enquiry is letting attention rest and sink back into the Self (becoming aware of being aware).  Meditation does the opposite and encourages (most of the time) that attention be fixed on an object which moves attention further away from it's source. Meditation is good for dealing with the object of emotion by watching the duality of the I and the emotion, but when that is done attention should rest back in awareness.

The difference between the two methods are worlds apart, and you can verify the difference in your experience now if you force attention on breath vs. letting attention sink back into it's source.  The feeling is completely different.

I guess I'm pointing out the difference between SE and general meditation, which is important, because if you are genuinely interested in enlightenment then SE is what you need to do, because meditation does not do really do the job.  Meditation is generally good for state training, but it does not permanently destroy the I thought

[Matthew Lamot]

8 minutes ago, Eelco1981 said:

@Frogfucius David Deida dedicated a whole chapter on a process of enjoying the beauty of women spiritually without acting on it and using this energy positively. I recommend you read the book The Way of the Superior Man.

This is a nice practice.  Yet again, it's a completely different path, based on Trantric teachings which I guess transforms subtle energies?  I'm not quite sure about it because it's not my thing, I know that mixing techniques can be counter productive, using a technique here, a technique there without using them in the context of their respective paths leads to confusion.  

Something I know not a lot of guys are fully conscious of.

How to use them all together so they compliment each other?  That I don't know, and would be interested in finding out.  As far as I know I assume it is best to stick to one thing and tread one path at a time, even one path per lifetime?

[Frogfucius]

@Matthew Lamot Maybe I'm mixing up labels here, but I tend to self-enquire while I meditate. I meditate for 30-minutes to an hour daily, and a good chunk of the time is self-enquiry, questioning me, the self, who or what am I, the sensations, observing my emotions, what are thoughts, etc. I just naturally do this, and I just let it ride.

[Matthew Lamot]

2 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

@Matthew Lamot Maybe I'm mixing up labels here, but I tend to self-enquire while I meditate. I meditate for 30-minutes to an hour daily, and a good chunk of the time is self-enquiry, questioning me, the self, who or what am I, the sensations, observing my emotions, what are thoughts, etc. I just naturally do this, and I just let it ride.

I'm confused, because the desires should evaporate almost instantly as the I thought is seen, or the emotion driving the desire is felt fully. 

Maybe there is another way?  I'm even more interested in this discussion now!

[Pav]

Perhaps you could try accepting your sexual desires and experiencing them fully instead of trying to resist them? Sexual desire are very natural, you will never be able to successfully repress them, it just won't work. When repressing, in essence all you are doing is denying their reality. They will still be their under the surface, only they will manifest themselves as neurosis.

It is your resistance to the desires which is causing the neurotic thoughts, not the desires themselves. Once you completely accept them you will be able to enjoy it for what it is.

[Frogfucius]

@Matthew Lamot Hmm, maybe. I don't think about it too often when I'm meditating, only whenever I physically see an attractive woman do I get sucked into the marsh.

@Mat Pav I don't suppress them, I let them ride. But after they have ridden, I feel suffering. I want to get to the point where I don't feel suffering at all.

@Eelco1981 Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Matthew Lamot]

41 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

 

@Mat Pav I don't suppress them, I let them ride. But after they have ridden, I feel suffering. I want to get to the point where I don't feel suffering at all.

Don't we all?  Suffering is created by the I thought.  The only time suffering will end is when the I thought is permanently destroyed.  That takes a while, until then the path is the goal?

 

[Nexeternity]

@Frogfucius  remember that suffering is also a label we put on a "bad" feeling.  A judgement.

But really all that stuff isnt real hehe

Easier said than done  

[Frogfucius]

26 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Don't we all?  Suffering is created by the I thought.  The only time suffering will end is when the I thought is permanently destroyed.  That takes a while, until then the path is the goal?

 

I think I've realized the problem. I'm attached to the suffering, and not just observing it and letting it go. This is holding me up on my path.

Thanks guys.

[Frogfucius]

@Matthew Lamot Success! I just came back from the gym, and I'm so happy. I was in a constant mode of self-enquiry, and my neurotic thoughts and lust quickly passed on by. I feel relieved and liberated... But I need to keep this up, constantly, or I'll fall back into the trap.

[Matthew Lamot]

55 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

I think I've realized the problem. I'm attached to the suffering, and not just observing it and letting it go. This is holding me up on my path.

Thanks guys.

I hope you don't mind, but I just had some more insight that might help.  

To offer a crude outline of what I think is happening here is this:

You have come to the conclusion that suffering is the problem, and that you need to let go of the suffering.  From my POV I know this is a way of avoiding the real problem.

The reason suffering happens is because of the I thought.  In Advaita the I thought is made up of a bundle of desires, tendencies of mind http://veda.wikidot.com/vasana (some fruther reading).

The ideal situation is to end the suffering associated with the desire, not disassociate from suffering itself.  

I really think the reason the suffering is there for you is because you experience the vasana but you set up a conflict inside you by not pursuing the desire.  (and rightly so, if you want enlightenment you should deal with the desire at the root instead of chasing the desire!)

But I sincerely think that if you learn to deal with the vasana directly and see through the I in the moment while still holding back, then suffering will not manifest.  Without making desire the enemy itself, by watching it, and then inquiring into "To whom does this thought arise?" and then asking the question "Who Am I?" will cause the desire to evaporate when the I thought evaporates.  There should be no suffering left in that moment if the practice worked.

The vasana will rise up again and again until the vasana is exhausted.  Just do more self inquiry on it.  Just do self inquiry until your I thought is gone. As each vasana is dealt with the I thought won't be extroverting toward objects and will rest in its source more readily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matthew Lamot]

9 minutes ago, Frogfucius said:

@Matthew Lamot Success! I just came back from the gym, and I'm so happy. I was in a constant mode of self-enquiry, and my neurotic thoughts and lust quickly passed on by. I feel relieved and liberated... But I need to keep this up, constantly, or I'll fall back into the trap.

Please ignore my last reply, I did not see this.  Nice work!

[Frogfucius]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Lamot said:

Please ignore my last reply, I did not see this.  Nice work!

@Matthew Lamot No, actually, your last post made a lot of sense.  It was good to see that post after I effectively put this practice in motion.