A question for women about "creepy" men

[Pallero]

On 19.8.2020 at 2:10 PM, Don Wei said:

So I was wondering what are the reasons some of you women find it creepy when men give you compliments and how can a man approach women without being seen as creepy ?

It's creepy because it feels unnatural. Like, "Why would you approach me and give me a compliment? You don't even know me." It feels like an attack.

I prefer to be approached in an organic and natural way, through a common interest for example. Pushiness is a no-no. It's good to be attuned and feel the vibes of the other person at all times, and drop it if you get a "go away" signal. I'd say, look for people who are open and then start approaching, and proceed if you get permission. That would be the simplest and most effective tactic in my opinion. As an idea.

But even if I'm open and looking for connection, I may not like a compliment. A simple "hi" would work much better.

It doesn't really matter what you say. It's about connection and the feels. If you feel it, it's there. If you don't, then no matter what you say or do, it won't work.

[Farnaby]

1 hour ago, Pallero said:

It's creepy because it feels unnatural. Like, "Why would you approach me and give me a compliment? You don't even know me." It feels like an attack.

I prefer to be approached in an organic and natural way, through a common interest for example. Pushiness is a no-no. It's good to be attuned and feel the vibes of the other person at all times, and drop it if you get a "go away" signal.

^ This. 

However, sometimes the "go away signal" doesn't mean you have to drop it completely. It can mean that this is not the right time or that the way you're approaching isn't working. Sometimes it does though. 

[soos_mite_ah]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop asking women for dating advice if you are a guy.

Why? I just want to know the logic behind this. 

I also heard people say the reverse on how you shouldnt ask men for dating advice if you're a woman.

Idk it just made more sense. If you have questions and are wondering about the perspective of the opposite sex, why wouldnt you just ask them instead of jumping to your own conclusions? 

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Idk it just made more sense. If you have questions and are wondering about the perspective of the opposite sex, why wouldnt you just ask them instead of jumping to your own conclusions? 

You must be new here.

 

[Espaim]

6 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Why? I just want to know the logic behind this. 

I also heard people say the reverse on how you shouldnt ask men for dating advice if you're a woman.

Idk it just made more sense. If you have questions and are wondering about the perspective of the opposite sex, why wouldnt you just ask them instead of jumping to your own conclusions? 

The logic is self-deception and self-bias

It's very easy to trick oneself into thinking I am this or that or I do this or that or I like this or that while doing the exact opposite. Self image is a great part of survival. People won't admit parts of their psyche and the advice given will be warped towards protecting their biases. So it's better to ask people who aren't with their conceptual survival on the line.

[Don Wei]

@Leo Gura I wasn't specifically asking for dating advice, I was just wondering why some women call some men creepy in certain situations, especially while approaching. Shouldn't I see as many perspectives as possible in order to find out the truth ? I understand you can't ask a fish how to catch fish, but finding out women's perspectives and ways of thinking won't damage me right ?

[Don Wei]

@soos_mite_ah I think I kinda understand why, it's better for a man to ask men with experience how to attract women because they have experience in attracting women. A woman doesn't know what it's like to be a man and how to attract women as a man. Unless you've talked to a lot of men and have the ability to see things from other people's perspective. 

But I still asked the women on this forum a question because I want to understand this topic not only from a male perspective but also a female perspective. And I don't think doing that will damage my dating skills because I don't just assume the advice women give me is 100 % true. On the other hand I don't believe everything experienced men say too. Like Leo said every perspective is partially true. I know some very motivational, positive experienced male dating coaches that give amazing advice but not everything they say is true. Some of them actually think all women are sluts and I don't agree because you can't put everyone in 1 category. There are also differen't levels of sluttiness even though i've never heard anyone except me say this but not everyone can be equally slutty. But that's another topic so i"m not gonna get too deep into that.

So that's why I want to hear differen't perspectives. As long as I question all of them and don't become dogmatic I'll be oké.

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Don Wei said:

@soos_mite_ah I think I kinda understand why, it's better for a man to ask men with experience how to attract women because they have experience in attracting women. A woman doesn't know what it's like to be a man and how to attract women as a man. Unless you've talked to a lot of men and have the ability to see things from other people's perspective. 

But I still asked the women on this forum a question because I want to understand this topic not only from a male perspective but also a female perspective. And I don't think doing that will damage my dating skills because I don't just assume the advice women give me is 100 % true. On the other hand I don't believe everything experienced men say too. Like Leo said every perspective is partially true. I know some very motivational, positive experienced male dating coaches that give amazing advice but not everything they say is true. Some of them actually think all women are sluts and I don't agree because you can't put everyone in 1 category. There are also differen't levels of sluttiness even though i've never heard anyone except me say this but not everyone can be equally slutty. But that's another topic so i"m not gonna get too deep into that.

So that's why I want to hear differen't perspectives. As long as I question all of them and don't become dogmatic I'll be oké.

 

5 hours ago, Espaim said:

The logic is self-deception and self-bias

It's very easy to trick oneself into thinking I am this or that or I do this or that or I like this or that while doing the exact opposite. Self image is a great part of survival. People won't admit parts of their psyche and the advice given will be warped towards protecting their biases. So it's better to ask people who aren't with their conceptual survival on the line.

Yeah the self bias thing that women have can absolutely be there. What people say isn't always how things turn out.  It makes sense to know what it's  like from a man's perspective when it comes to attracting women and most of us women don't have that perspective.

However, something that I see with some guys is that they have a warped perception of what women want or what they are like usually based on a lack of experience and stereotypes. This can especially be seen on the notion of how some men think all women are sluts for instance.

I have experienced the reverse when it comes to a woman's perspective when attracting men. I've heard women say don't listen to guys for dating advice and I can see on how that can be valid because, again, self biases. Some circles also carry around the notion that all men are emotionless fuck boys that want to have sex and never see you again. Some of those circles take it to an extreme and resort to manipulative tactics as well which can get pretty toxic. All of this comes from a warped perception of what men are like, usually due to again lack of experience.

And by lack of experience, in both instances, I don't always mean dating experience. I think it's also beneficial to have friends of the opposite sex to understand their perspective and to avoid painting everyone with a broad stroke. I feel like getting both perspectives, both from the person who is trying to attract and the person attracting (gender varies according to orientation so if you're a straight guy its getting the perspective of women and what they like and the perspective of men who are dating around and vice versa) can help cancel out some of the self biases that can be present from either side 

[Pallero]

20 hours ago, Farnaby said:

^ This. 

However, sometimes the "go away signal" doesn't mean you have to drop it completely. It can mean that this is not the right time or that the way you're approaching isn't working. Sometimes it does though. 

True. There are different kinds of signals. The “I’m repelled by you” signal will feel like a rejection. Then there are other types of situations. Like “not now, I’m stressed” or “I’m not in the mood” or “you seem suspicious”. You’ll feel held at a distance by the other person but not necessarily pushed away. That’s a sign to stop and reevaluate your approach.

[Farnaby]

41 minutes ago, Pallero said:

True. There are different kinds of signals. The “I’m repelled by you” signal will feel like a rejection. Then there are other types of situations. Like “not now, I’m stressed” or “I’m not in the mood” or “you seem suspicious”. You’ll feel held at a distance by the other person but not necessarily pushed away. That’s a sign to stop and reevaluate your approach.

Yep, that's true. The problem is that having struggled with social anxiety (which I still do, but less) signals are often misinterpreted.

It's easy to think "she doesn't like me" and stop the conversation, when she actually is just holding you at distance or not even that. Maybe she just had a bad day and it has nothing to do with you. 

I would say if you are feeling anxious, you need to be careful and not interpret your thoughts and feelings as the truth. 

There's this mantra "if it doesn't feel right it isn't." IME that's often true but also often not the case. An anxious brain will interpret perfectly normal things as if something was wrong.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Farnaby

[Pallero]

3 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

Yep, that's true. The problem is that having struggled with social anxiety (which I still do, but less) signals are often misinterpreted.

It's easy to think "she doesn't like me" and stop the conversation, when she actually is just holding you at distance or not even that. Maybe she just had a bad day and it has nothing to do with you. 

I would say if you are feeling anxious, you need to be careful and not interpret your thoughts and feelings as the truth. 

There's this mantra "if it doesn't feel right it isn't." IME that's often true but also often not the case. An anxious brain will interpret perfectly normal things as if something was wrong.

Oh, definitely. I struggle with social anxiety too. I will project all sorts of things on to others. 

To have a meaningful and open connection with someone AND have social anxiety is tricky.
I don’t know if approaching people while feeling anxious would ever have positive results. I’d say, it’s best to do it when you are feeling good and relaxed. And present. That way you are actually able to feel the other person and interpret them correctly and not get too caught up in your own worries. ? 

[Farnaby]

@Pallero Yes, I agree that the ideal state to be able to accurately read the signals of other people is when you're feeling relaxed.  

However, I've had positive results even when I was feeling anxious. Not talking about pick up or stuff like that because I'm not into that. But I've been on dates or just met new people and even if I was anxious, it often turned out good. It's true that you feel inhibited, contracted, etc., but IME you can still connect with people even if it's not ideal. 

Actually, waiting until you feel relaxed can be a trap for anxious people, because if you tend to feel anxious around people, this is usually deeply rooted and will probably get triggered every time you meet new people. Also, because waiting for that perfect moment is like a confirmation for your brain that "this is dangerous". For me, trying to do what I'm afraid of anyways, embracing the fear, grounding myself, etc., has worked better than waiting for the perfect moment when I finally won't feel anxious/in my head. 

But I agree that whenever anxiety is present, you have to be careful and not believe every thought that you have. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Farnaby

[Pallero]

2 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Pallero Yes, I agree that the ideal state to be able to accurately read the signals of other people is when you're feeling relaxed.  

However, I've had positive results even when I was feeling anxious. Not talking about pick up or stuff like that because I'm not into that. But I've been on dates or just met new people and even if I was anxious, it often turned out good. It's true that you feel inhibited, contracted, etc., but IME you can still connect with people even if it's not ideal. 

Actually, waiting until you feel relaxed can be a trap for anxious people, because if you tend to feel anxious around people, this is usually deeply rooted and will probably get triggered every time you meet new people. Also, because waiting for that perfect moment is like a confirmation for your brain that "this is dangerous". For me, trying to do what I'm afraid of anyways, embracing the fear, grounding myself, etc., has worked better than waiting for the perfect moment when I finally won't feel anxious/in my head. 

But I agree that whenever anxiety is present, you have to be careful and not believe every thought that you have. 

That's true. I realized that I have a fear of feeling uncomfortable and so it's hard for me to approach people while being anxious. I want to practice embracing the fear and moving with it.

[Leo Gura]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:06 AM, soos_mite_ah said:

Why? I just want to know the logic behind this. 

why wouldnt you just ask them instead of jumping to your own conclusions? 

Because their perspective is biased by their survival agenda.

A woman does not understand what is required for a guy to attract a woman. Understanding this requires lots of experience attracting women. Which women do not have. It is also not in their self-interest to understand it.

It would be like a rabbit understanding how to hunt rabbits. This does not compute in the rabbit's mind. The rabbit cannot imagine the hunting of rabbits. The rabbit will just give you advice to preclude hunting altogether because the rabbit must be anti-hunting to survive. So there is an unconscious conflict of interest problem.

19 hours ago, Don Wei said:

@Leo Gura I wasn't specifically asking for dating advice, I was just wondering why some women call some men creepy in certain situations, especially while approaching.

That is dating advice.

Women do not spend time analyzing guys who approach them.

Quote

Shouldn't I see as many perspectives as possible in order to find out the truth?

Generally yes, but a woman is not the right person to ask about how not to be creepy. She hasn't spent much time thinking about this from the guy's POV.

[Jacob Morres]

*When I ask girls how to talk to girls*

Be yourself! Be nice! Ask questions! 

Wtf?????  Mm msjsjajnabauaalalakmsjshdbxnxnx 

Most girls don't have an in depth understanding. But girls with less bias, you can have deep honest conversations with

Which I guess might be necessary? They can give you some direct experience and nuanced advice. But I haven't experienced that. I've only gotten flimsy advice so far.

But im in the camp of talking to girls who have holisitic, deep understanding for now...? 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Jacob Morres

[mandyjw]

I've observed that one of the most powerful advantages of being a woman in the community as a whole is that I am suspected much less than men are. There are certain opportunities open to me that men aren't trusted with, mostly ones that the reward of which is emotional connection, but also certain career options such as childcare. Teenage girls/women are much more readily trusted to babysit, housesit and pet sit than teenage boys/young men. If I'm exploring something on someone else's property, I'm much more readily accepted a possible member of the historical society than a man who might be vandalizing. They aren't given the same opportunities and practice to be trusted and to interact, so they sometimes inherently sense that they threaten people. It's a vicious circle, and what you resist persists. The more you try NOT to be socially awkward the more you act socially awkward. Same with creepiness. It's pretty unfair to men how suspicious people are of them. Of course they are socially awkward and creepy, because people expect them to be.

On the other hand I've had the experience of receiving inappropriate facebook messages from another married father at a child's birthday party I attended and had no interaction with him at all there. And an elderly man at a gas station make completely crazy comments about my appearance, even though I was wearing a ski jacket.  Powerful imagination? I dunno.  So I've also been conditioned to be cautious and suspicious. 

It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, law of attraction, collective societal shadow thing methinks. If our society valued emotional connection more as a whole we would see the unfairness in not allowing men to participate in it the same way we allow women too. We don't teach it in schools because we don't see it as a skill that is necessary for success in life, because we measure success externally. We see emotional connection as a less important part of life as a whole, so we don't realize that our prejudices are so damaging. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Because their perspective is biased by their survival agenda.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

She hasn't spent much time thinking about this from the guy's POV.

You assume a lot. A lot of the women on this forum are older, experienced and some including myself have sons of their own. I've sacrificed hours of my own life and career to get my autistic son the social interaction and experiences he needs so he isn't handicapped that way later in life. I've thought a lot about life from other perspectives, too much about their's and not enough on my own, in fact. 

Women's voices are discredited enough already without the admin of the forum/youtube star this place revolves around giving the outright advice to discredit them.  A lot of perspectives given here are self-biased but the people here are plenty smart enough to sniff that out for themselves. 

[Ar_Senses]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because their perspective is biased by their survival agenda.

A woman does not understand what is required for a guy to attract a woman. Understanding this requires lots of experience attracting women. Which women do not have. It is also not in their self-interest to understand it.

It would be like a rabbit understanding how to hunt rabbits. This does not compute in the rabbit's mind. The rabbit cannot imagine the hunting of rabbits. The rabbit will just give you advice to preclude hunting altogether because the rabbit must be anti-hunting to survive. So there is an unconscious conflict of interest problem.

Wow! Brilliant mechanism!

Thank you for that perspective! 

[Dodo]

On 19/08/2020 at 0:58 PM, nistake said:

I'm a guy, but allow me to chime in.

If the compliment is like "Hey, you have a nice ass, how about a date?", then it's obviously creepy for the majority of girls. I'm pretty sure there are guys who can pull this off sucessfully, but that's a small percentage of guys.

However, if you say something along the lines of "Hey, you have a really nice dress, where did you buy it?" and you mean it (not just for the sake of pickup), you can easily initiate a conversation with girls and they wouldn't be offended. Granted, there'll be always girls who find you creepy no matter what you do, so you just deal with it and move on.

Bottom line: If you're aware of social norms and you're polite but confident, you'll be just fine. Don't listen to random memes and social media.

So you're saying I should become her gay best friend basically  

[Hello from Russia]

If you're attractive and charming it doesn't matter what you say. If you're a creeper - even the best and most polite line won't work

You're looking at the wrong direction, guys, words do not matter at all

Edited August 23, 2020 by Hello from Russia