Progressives may benefit more from another 4 years of Trump. Here's why

[Annoynymous]

Progressives are political minority in america, let's agree on that. Republican party was always for the right wingers and it is now dominated by alt right and Christian rights since trump won the presidency. On the other hand, democratic party is a party of centrists and other independent voters. Yes, they talk about minorities and immigrants,  still they believe "middle way is our way".

Progressives on the democratic base, unlike alt rights on the republican base, couldn't take over the party. Democratic establishment clearly don't want progressives, which is why we see AOC only given 60 seconds pre recorded speaking time slot, whereas republican john kasich and notorious neoliberal  bloomberg get to speak at the convention. They don't want the left, they want centrist corporate democrat. It will be basically the same old soup in a plate.

In this current scenario, if the trump beats joe biden, it will be a massive defeat for corporate dems like it was in 2016. The democratic party will be in chaos. It will help the progressives to energise their base and they will be able to make the point to the people that same old centrism won't work. Then we may see radical change to the democratic party and making it a strong, firm base for the left.

I know four more years of Trump will bring much chaos and destruction. But remember, politics is always a dirty affair.

N.B - this is my personal opinion.  

Edited August 18, 2020 by Annoynymous

[Apparition of Jack]

"Progressives may benefit more from a Hitler victory. Here's why"

[tuckerwphotography]

This is a complicated topic that could be explored from endless perspectives. I'll just say that my personal POV is we risk not having an election nor a stable democracy in four years if Trump is re-elected. We barely have either of those now. Trump being re-elected is like allowing a child to play with a nuclear bomb (metaphorically and literally). That doesn't seem like a risk worth taking, regardless of how it could theoretically help the progressive cause in some unpredictable future. 

[Annoynymous]

@tuckerwphotography i don't want trump to be reelected for four more years. 

But look at what dem establishment is doing. They are pushing the left out of the discussion. More or less 40% of the democratic base is the left and yet the establishment doing nothing to appeal young,black and latino progressive voters as if they don't need them. They think they need a "winning coalition" yet they don't want to include progressive base in the process. One reason behind that might be they don't want to make compromise in their neoliberal agenda, which they inevitably have to do if they wanna appeal left vote. They are not doing that/not doing enough. This may cost them the election.

[tuckerwphotography]

I've been a Bernie voter the past two cycles, so I likely resonate with your politics. That said, I don't feel the Dem establishment is pushing the left out of the picture. In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised by how much mainstream Dems like Biden have moved left. In fact, if Biden moved any further left I would question his ethics. I prefer for him to be true to his authentic values and listen to all sides rather than drop all his positions and align 100% with Bernie/AOC just to win an election (plus, I don't think this would be smart strategy anyways). 

Did you hear Bernie's speech last night? He could not have been more supportive or passionate about the need to vote for Biden and get Trump out of office. I don't think anybody in the country is jazzed about Biden, but when dealing with a country that's a fractioned as America, it's not surprising that we wind up in the center-ish with milk toast. Or we swing from one extreme to the next, and we've seen how that's played out. The way I see it, from a big picture bird's eye view, a Biden victory is a win for "progressives" and more importantly a win for progressive policies. 

[Carl-Richard]

The forest might benefit more from more forest fires.

[tuckerwphotography]

@Carl-Richard You could be 100% correct. I think Trump ironically has done more for "progressing" the progressive cause than almost anyone else on Earth could have done. I guess the question is...is another four years a risk we're willing to take? Sometimes forest fires get out of control fast...

[integral]

I image leo is sprinting here right now with absolute deadly focus in his eyes, about to deliver a spiritual tackle. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by integral

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Carl-Richard You could be 100% correct. I think Trump ironically has done more for "progressing" the progressive cause than almost anyone else on Earth could have done. I guess the question is...is another four years a risk we're willing to take? Sometimes forest fires get out of control fast...

Notice how my comment contains two perspectives: forest fires are bad for individual trees, but forest fires give space for new trees. I initially didn't press on either one, but is it really worth the risk of losing the entire forest? I think not. The forest will get to this stage regardless of how many times we burn it down.

[Annoynymous]

Reality is always hard affairs. There are ups and downs. There are sweet things and sour things. One comes after another.

[Parththakkar12]

@Annoynymous We can't really control the result of the election. What we must do is prepare for a Trump win in our individual lives, aka prepare for the worst.

Here's what I suggest - Go under a rock, the most comfortable one, and sit tight. Sit tight, cuz fireworks will go down. The political situation is just waaaay too unstable right now to do anything crazy. There's potential for all sorts of shit to go down.

For example, Trump does something stupid and he spoils the relationship with China. If that happens and if China stops buying US Treasury bonds, the dollar will go down in value cuz there's so many of them. When that happens, Chinese goods will become too expensive to afford and Chinese exports will no longer be tenable. This will be an economic catastrophe as the world depends on cheap Chinese products. Inflation will just get too bad. The COVID crisis doesn't help with this. Once chaos ensues, well, then we're on our own to fend for ourselves.

I wish I had something more positive to say about this.

[Opo]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/biden-makes-policy-concessions-to-bernie-sanders-to-woo-his-supporters

Bernie got stronger when Obama was in the office not Trump. 

People need to see that Biden is not left enough and repeating how dumb Trump is for 4 more years won't accomplish that. 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

In this current scenario, if the trump beats joe biden, it will be a massive defeat for corporate dems like it was in 2016. The democratic party will be in chaos. It will help the progressives to energise their base and they will be able to make the point to the people that same old centrism won't work.

This is what some progressives said back in 2016. But it just didn't pan out. Trump was already supposed to be the punishment to centrists for Hilary. Now you say the punishment wasn't enough, now we need Trump x2. Then in 2024 you will say we need someone else like Trump for x3.

Meanwhile, all these punishments kill tens of thousands of people and damage the instutions which hold government together. It's a dubious strategy which shows little promise.

Majority of the country is centrist. So you will not convert them into progressives via years of electing self-destructive right-wing monsters.

People do not appreciate that Trump is doing decades worth of institutional damage to the system via life-long judge appoitments, etc. The next 4 years will involve at least 1 supreme court appoitment which will be disasterous if Trump is in charge. For this reason alone you should be eager to vote for Biden.

The centrism of Biden is much overblown. Biden will still enact progressive stuff over 4 years. Of course he will not up-end capitalism, but the country is not ready for that so it's a moot point. It's silly to prefer Trump over Biden because you will directly hurt progressive causes.

Just because Biden is not giving you radical change does not mean he's bad. Moderate improvement that sticks is better than radical improvement that doesn't.

Biden will make improvements to healthcare, environment, regulation, taxation, etc. They will be incremental. Which is how most evolution is.

[Joel3102]

I’m starting to realise that creators like Kyle putting out tuns of videos shitting on Biden and the DNC with an election around the corner is quite irresponsible. Defeat Trump for now then once the Dems have power worry about moving them further left. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The forest might benefit more from more forest fires.

Slash and burn agriculture.

[diamondpenguin]

Trump has committed so many crimes that if he doesnt go into office next term he could go to prison. We all know that hes terrified of it and that's why hes always shitting on biden. 

[Opo]

8 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

Trump has committed so many crimes that if he doesnt go into office next term he could go to prison. We all know that hes terrified of it and that's why hes always shitting on biden. 

He can escape to Epstein's island and hide in a rape dungeon if he needs to. He'll be fine. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Opo

[Roy]

If Trump wins again, things are going to get real bad (domestic terrorism).

I don't think your country can handle much more to be honest. Feels like a breaking point is very close.

Either do everything to make someone other than him go into office or start saving your money and move out of what is rapidly starting to become a third-world country.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

I’m starting to realise that creators like Kyle putting out tuns of videos shitting on Biden and the DNC with an election around the corner is quite irresponsible. Defeat Trump for now then once the Dems have power worry about moving them further left. 

That is similar to what Cornel West is saying. He knows the problems and danger of neoliberal / corporate Dems. Remove Trump and then put pressure on Biden on Biden. If Biden and neoliberal/corporate Dems don’t budge, then start primarying them with left progressives. Cornel will be the keynote speaker for a new grassroots People’s Party that is emerging. I think this is putting healthy left wing pressure on Biden. Yet Cornel also says to vote for Biden to first remove Trump.

To me, Kyle goes beyond simply criticizing Biden and revealing how damaging neoliberalism / corporatism can be. Kyle seems to go into demonization and damaging Biden. My impression is he wants radical change and can’t stand the thought of incremental change within more neoliberal corporate plutocracy. 

[nahtanoj]

@Forestluv Kyle has said he would vote Biden, then he says he dont know. I think He is voting for Biden. I myself was going to vote green party until I saw trump kidnaping people from the streets and destroying the USPS.