Leo, what breakfast do you currently eat not to fall asleep?

[Bufo Alvarius]

I haven't Hashimoto diagnosed yet, but am struggling with energy levels in the morning since quite a while, especially after having my first meal. it did also get worse since the last year or so (I am 33 now). I have experiemtend with plently of food strategies, but so far didn't get the results I was hoping for. 

@Leo Gura maybe you could share what works for you in the morning, so I/we could learn from your insights. Thx ?

 

[Michael569]

@Bufo Alvarius what does your typical breakfast look like? 

[Bufo Alvarius]

There is no typical for me, as I have gone through much trial and error and keep varrying on a day to day base, depending what I feel like. That can be

- fasting

- buckwheat, millet or oat porridge with low glycemic fruits and little healthy fats

- scrambled or boiled eggs with vegetables and/or buckwheat

- vegetable soup (with pumkin/sweet potatoe or buckwheat)

- celery/tumeric/ginger juice (for cleansing) or raw cacao hot chocolate (as it's quite filling)

 

If I go the carbs route, I can set the clock before falling into an energy low about an hour later. The good thing is that cravings throughout the later day are much less, if breakfast has sufficient carbs. Also, energy levels from evening onward are more stable if carbs have been take care of early on.

If I go the protein/fat route, energy levels are a bit better in the morning, but I just postponed the carb meal for a later point in the day (including the energy low), cause my body will demand the carbs or answer with heavy cravings. 

If I fast or just drink celery  juice or raw cacao, I have the best energy levels in the morning, no doubts. Nevertheless, rule of thumb is that my body will always demand the minimum caloric intake, as well as demand a shared ratio of carbs, protein and fat. Going with one without the other always end up in cravings. So after fasting in the morning, the lunch meal tends to be much bigger, as satiation takes much longer to be reached (also if I try with lots of protein and slow eating) and energy low after the morning fast is even greater after first lunch meal.

Also, eating only a light meal after a morning fast does not work out, because my body will stay hungry after eating light and keep demanding the calories and carbs/proteins that are missing. All thoughs will revolve around caloric dense food, if I don't take care of meeting my macros and calories at some point around noon.

[Michael569]

@Bufo Alvarius I know lot of people on the forum will disagree with this statement but having regular solid breakfast is one of the most significant and important things you can do for your health and skipping breakfast and fasting through is one of the worst things you can do.  I think this has been the most effective strategy for all the people I have worked with. If you care, I'll explain why this works in the end, otherwise skip that part. 

The breakfast should consist of the following: 

• A source of complex carbohydrates (oats, buckwheat, wholegrain bread etc) 
• Source of protein - nuts, seeds, tofu, bit of plant-based protein powder, a boiled egg or two or something of that kind
• Source of essential fatty acids - nuts, seeds, nut butter etc. 
• At least 15g of fibre
• 2-3 portions of fruit one if which should be berries

Oatmeal or buckwheat meal are perfect for this. 

Basically you want breakfast to be the largest meal of the day, it needs to be balanced and ideally warm. The protein part is important and although I am not a fan of counting anything, having 15-20g of protein in there keeps it more balance, more satiating and more energising. The complex carbs will deliver lot of B-vitamins and magnesium essential for your mitochondrial energy cycles to work as well as fibre to slow everything down and make sure the breakfast only gives you a gentle spike of insulin unlike a fruit juice that sends your pancreas into hyperdrive which leads to the production of an excessive amount of insulin particles that end up taking away too much of the blood sugar and you end up hypoglycemic, hungry and somewhat irritated. 

To eat or not to eat? 
For the majority of people, sleeping for 7-9 hours depletes a decent part of your liver glycogen (stored sugar) because there needs to be a constant stream of glucose in your blood to supply cells and mitochondria with glucose so that it can keep the kreb cycle running and producing ATP (energy). If this starts running out, your body will try to go into ketosis to burn fat and break it into fatty acids and glycerol to use in the energy metabolism. The problem is that if you are not trained well in this it may take couple days to get in proper ketosis and in the meantime, you are in starvation mode losing muscle protein because that is easier to burn but is very dirty and inefficient. This causes your hypothalamus to signal the adrenals to produce adrenaline, noradrenaline and glucocorticoids (mainly cortisol). These stress hormones are the reason people feel great when skipping breakfast. It is not that the food is bad, it is that your stress hormones make you feel more alive. The downside is that on one hand this can wreck your metabolism in the long term, it also taxes your adrenal glands and make create a bit of metabolic inhibition so that the body becomes more likely to store calories one the food becomes available. In research, people who eat irregularly, store more calories than those who do. Breakfast seems to be making the most difference. So ideally you want to keep your blood sugar balanced by having a solid meal in the morning consisting of the above. 

But hey, none of this has to apply to you and maybe you need different approach but this has worked in my life and couple people I have helped with some chronic conditions.

Good luck

 

 

[KaRzual]

Breakfast is crucial. Mine is essentialy 7 eggs and 120-170 grams of bacon at 7:30 am, and at 9 am i start my training as i'm on my low carb diet. It works wonders. 

Have you checked your T levels?

[Bufo Alvarius]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

@Bufo Alvarius I know lot of people on the forum will disagree with this statement but having regular solid breakfast is one of the most significant and important things you can do for your health and skipping breakfast and fasting through is one of the worst things you can do.  I think this has been the most effective strategy for all the people I have worked with. If you care, I'll explain why this works in the end, otherwise skip that part. 

The breakfast should consist of the following: 

• A source of complex carbohydrates (oats, buckwheat, wholegrain bread etc) 
• Source of protein - nuts, seeds, tofu, bit of plant-based protein powder, a boiled egg or two or something of that kind
• Source of essential fatty acids - nuts, seeds, nut butter etc. 
• At least 15g of fibre
• 2-3 portions of fruit one if which should be berries

Oatmeal or buckwheat meal are perfect for this. 

Basically you want breakfast to be the largest meal of the day, it needs to be balanced and ideally warm. The protein part is important and although I am not a fan of counting anything, having 15-20g of protein in there keeps it more balance, more satiating and more energising. The complex carbs will deliver lot of B-vitamins and magnesium essential for your mitochondrial energy cycles to work as well as fibre to slow everything down and make sure the breakfast only gives you a gentle spike of insulin unlike a fruit juice that sends your pancreas into hyperdrive which leads to the production of an excessive amount of insulin particles that end up taking away too much of the blood sugar and you end up hypoglycemic, hungry and somewhat irritated. 

To eat or not to eat? 
For the majority of people, sleeping for 7-9 hours depletes a decent part of your liver glycogen (stored sugar) because there needs to be a constant stream of glucose in your blood to supply cells and mitochondria with glucose so that it can keep the kreb cycle running and producing ATP (energy). If this starts running out, your body will try to go into ketosis to burn fat and break it into fatty acids and glycerol to use in the energy metabolism. The problem is that if you are not trained well in this it may take couple days to get in proper ketosis and in the meantime, you are in starvation mode losing muscle protein because that is easier to burn but is very dirty and inefficient. This causes your hypothalamus to signal the adrenals to produce adrenaline, noradrenaline and glucocorticoids (mainly cortisol). These stress hormones are the reason people feel great when skipping breakfast. It is not that the food is bad, it is that your stress hormones make you feel more alive. The downside is that on one hand this can wreck your metabolism in the long term, it also taxes your adrenal glands and make create a bit of metabolic inhibition so that the body becomes more likely to store calories one the food becomes available. In research, people who eat irregularly, store more calories than those who do. Breakfast seems to be making the most difference. So ideally you want to keep your blood sugar balanced by having a solid meal in the morning consisting of the above. 

But hey, none of this has to apply to you and maybe you need different approach but this has worked in my life and couple people I have helped with some chronic conditions.

Good luck

 

 

@Michael569 Thx for the detailed explanation, TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) has a very similar approach, where eating warm meals in the morning, including quality essential carbs, proteins, fats and minerals is supposed to strenghten the the organ function and improve energy levels throughout the day and seasons. 

A year ago, compared to other eating styles, this nutrition style did work very well for me. I am a very athletic guy, who is physically active and also needs to meet his macros on a day to day base, fasting was rather left for lay days, where total energy expediture was low.

It happens only a year ago, that a significant fatigue creeped into my life stlye, especially in the morning it become much more difficult to get up and going. And although a natural decrease in energy levels is to be expected in your 30's, for me it feels like something is off and my body is too energy depleted for the relatively (very) healthy life style I am having. 

Blood testing only showed that iron was a bit on the low side, but even with sufficient natural and artifical supplementation, the main issue of energy fatigue in the morning didn't get resolved. 

Before doing more blood testing and other work done, in order to figure where the energy loss come from, I thought it would be nice to further experiment with food, as this seems to me to be the biggest contributing factor on a day to day base that can be adjusted. Hence I was interested in Leo's breakfast routine, to try some of that stuff out and see if it also works for me. 

Anybody in the forum who's also struggeling with Hashimoto or energy fatigue in the morning and who has found good solution's, is welcome to share their method 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Bufo Alvarius

[DrewNows]

I’d be surprised if Leo eats anything other than a “breakfast of champions”  

Edited August 18, 2020 by DrewNows

[DrewNows]

@Michael569 yes I would say it depends the level of acidity in the lymph system (wheres the equilibrium), a breakfast for myself will immediately put me to sleep because I’m usually quite buoyant with my energy. Of course, I am able to change my diet and my body will easily support a good hardy/healthy breakfast, like it has in the past. However it will also require more food throughout the day to keep my energy and even more sleep. Sometimes it can make sleep more challenging if the food is not so clean. Wish I could work with ya some time to explore how my body manages different diets and what the blood shows etc  

Those who love food, like a Taurus, will find it much more difficult to justify changing beliefs and food eating habits to improve health conditions. Leo’s a perfect example of this, in my speculations of course 

[Michael569]

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Wish I could work with ya some time to explore how my body manages different diets and what the blood shows etc  

I think you and I have embarked on too much of a different health journey in our search for answers for that to be possible haha  

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Those who love food, like a Taurus, will find it much more difficult to justify changing beliefs and food eating habits to improve health conditions

I'm Taurus as well (the date of birth on forum profile is random ) so perhaps there is something to it   -smiley scratching his beard and thinking -

[Username]

I'm currently working in my fat adaptation. I'm still struggling in eating strictly keto and following fast - it's hard for me to be do both at the same time. However I notice that my energy levels became very even. It's especially during endurance sports like cycling all day long. I do not have to rest and I'm not getting hungry. Before keto I just to eat at least every hour our two. During my ordinary day I don't have ups and downs in terms of energy. I don't feel tired / sleepy after a meal as I did before. My mental clarity also improved.

[ItsNick]

On 18-8-2020 at 3:57 PM, Michael569 said:

@Bufo Alvarius I know lot of people on the forum will disagree with this statement but having regular solid breakfast is one of the most significant and important things you can do for your health and skipping breakfast and fasting through is one of the worst things you can do.  I think this has been the most effective strategy for all the people I have worked with. If you care, I'll explain why this works in the end, otherwise skip that part. 

The breakfast should consist of the following: 

• A source of complex carbohydrates (oats, buckwheat, wholegrain bread etc) 
• Source of protein - nuts, seeds, tofu, bit of plant-based protein powder, a boiled egg or two or something of that kind
• Source of essential fatty acids - nuts, seeds, nut butter etc. 
• At least 15g of fibre
• 2-3 portions of fruit one if which should be berries

Oatmeal or buckwheat meal are perfect for this. 

Basically you want breakfast to be the largest meal of the day, it needs to be balanced and ideally warm. The protein part is important and although I am not a fan of counting anything, having 15-20g of protein in there keeps it more balance, more satiating and more energising. The complex carbs will deliver lot of B-vitamins and magnesium essential for your mitochondrial energy cycles to work as well as fibre to slow everything down and make sure the breakfast only gives you a gentle spike of insulin unlike a fruit juice that sends your pancreas into hyperdrive which leads to the production of an excessive amount of insulin particles that end up taking away too much of the blood sugar and you end up hypoglycemic, hungry and somewhat irritated. 

To eat or not to eat? 
For the majority of people, sleeping for 7-9 hours depletes a decent part of your liver glycogen (stored sugar) because there needs to be a constant stream of glucose in your blood to supply cells and mitochondria with glucose so that it can keep the kreb cycle running and producing ATP (energy). If this starts running out, your body will try to go into ketosis to burn fat and break it into fatty acids and glycerol to use in the energy metabolism. The problem is that if you are not trained well in this it may take couple days to get in proper ketosis and in the meantime, you are in starvation mode losing muscle protein because that is easier to burn but is very dirty and inefficient. This causes your hypothalamus to signal the adrenals to produce adrenaline, noradrenaline and glucocorticoids (mainly cortisol). These stress hormones are the reason people feel great when skipping breakfast. It is not that the food is bad, it is that your stress hormones make you feel more alive. The downside is that on one hand this can wreck your metabolism in the long term, it also taxes your adrenal glands and make create a bit of metabolic inhibition so that the body becomes more likely to store calories one the food becomes available. In research, people who eat irregularly, store more calories than those who do. Breakfast seems to be making the most difference. So ideally you want to keep your blood sugar balanced by having a solid meal in the morning consisting of the above. 

But hey, none of this has to apply to you and maybe you need different approach but this has worked in my life and couple people I have helped with some chronic conditions.

Good luck

 

 

Thank you. I will try that.

Do you eat the oatmeal or buckwheat in any kind of dairy? Because I try to avoid that.

Edited September 7, 2020 by ItsNick

[Michael569]

31 minutes ago, ItsNick said:

Thank you. I will try that.

Do you eat the oatmeal or buckwheat in any kind of dairy? Because I try to avoid that.

You can just use water or any of the dairy-free milk. 1:5 is a good ratio of substance:water.  Buckwheat definitely needs to be cooked or at least soaked. Some people eat oats raw but I think it just tastes much when cooked. 

[UDT]

On 18/08/2020 at 3:37 PM, Bufo Alvarius said:

If I go the carbs route, I can set the clock before falling into an energy low about an hour later. The good thing is that cravings throughout the later day are much less, if breakfast has sufficient carbs. Also, energy levels from evening onward are more stable if carbs have been take care of early on.

If I go the protein/fat route, energy levels are a bit better in the morning, but I just postponed the carb meal for a later point in the day (including the energy low), cause my body will demand the carbs or answer with heavy cravings

Sounds like a low metabolism to me. Especially when you got to sleep after carbs. 
 

[Michal__]

I had a similiar problem, I think it was caused by ending my fast wrong. Do you fast? It improved by taking garlic. And I think I cured the rest of it with rhodiola rosea & maybe ashwagandha had an effect too, idk. I would try this and probably what @Michael569 said. Typically a weird form of fatigue develops when fasting (and maybe keto) doesn't work for you. Just hope there isn't actual long term damage, maybe you just ducked up your health short term. It will 100% get better if you work on it while complentating the root reason.

[The0Self]

Definitely try Ray Peat style eating or at least peruse raypeatforum.com

Serotonin, allergens and microbes, estrogen, and polyunsaturated fat can wreak havoc on your system. The amino acid ratio of the protein you eat matters; the ratio of calcium to phosphate matters, phenols and salicylates can cause issues if sulfation status is off. Like a dozen other things could be the issue.

Andy Cutler and Ray Peat both have a good life purpose rooted in this work, available to the public.

onibasu was the Andy cutler site I think

Edited September 7, 2020 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

I tend to drink lots of fresh juices in the morning and bone broth from CostCo. The lighter I keep my breakfast the more energy I have.

[Michael569]

13 hours ago, UDT said:

Sounds like a low metabolism to me. Especially when you got to sleep after carbs. 

a typical high GL breakfast consisting of toast and jam will do that too you even at normal metabolic capacity

[Leo Gura]

For fuck's sake, stop eating wheat and cerals.

[Preety_India]

I can't live without milk 

I can't live without cereals 

I can't live without cheerios 

Don't tell me what to eat at breakfast. I won't ever compromise. 

I want to eat whatever I want to eat without getting fat 

 Well so far so good, I ain't getting fatty 

 

 

[Charlotte]

@Preety_India Do you think weight gain is the only indicator of your body disliking food?