Meditating/being present while working/studying?

[RedLine]

What is the correct way to be present/contemplative while we are working/studying? What is the difference between being present while we are working/studying or not been it? Is it actually possible to mediate while we are working/studying since we are "changin things" and not contemplating without trying to malipulate (this is what meditation is about)?

 

The most I can do is be super focused on what I am doing and don´t multitask. But I still feel that I am not as conscious as when I am doing Do Nothing or some other meditation. To be aware I need to do nothing, just watch, I don´t know how to be aware and take action at the same time. I feel that I am in my mind, because I am changing things so working/studying goes against my spiritual calling.

 

Since most of us are basically most of our vigil time working/studying, I think these are very importante questions. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by RedLine

[RedLine]

29 minutes ago, dflores321 said:

The way I see it, whatever is occurring is absolutely fine. You are always present, the way to work and be present is just to work lol. If youre doing manual labor its pretty hard to be in some blissed out meditative state, you will just be working. I think theres a secret bliss in this though, there is a bliss that comes with fully doing what is being done. 

Now that I see it i have a tendency to want to reach a state where im in flow while doing a task, this is a trap  as I am trying to escape what is occurring now. 

Does this make sense?

 

There is some bliss in work, but I still think you are in a low-consciusness state when you are working. At least you are and advanced in permanent high stages of consciusness so you can be aware even when you are taking actions; defintely not me case, I am still a newbie. A lot of people do an 8-10 hour job with a lot of attention and diligence and they are not spiritually developed at all. 

 

What I think is that work goes against the contemplative journey. And yes, "we have to accept present and live whatever it is" "there is bliss in all god creation" "just do what you have to do" "you cant´enter the flow if you desire to enter the flow" bla bla bla. You all know what I mean. I am talking in a practical way. Describe your conscisuss level when you are working/studying, that is what counts; the rest is theory and non-dual abstractions, what matters is experience, practice.

 

ps: sorry if it sounds as a rat agains you, it is not, actually your point is good. I just took you reply as a context to write a general comment

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by RedLine

[Mulky]

I choose to do jobs that allow a meditative state most of the time.  i have trouble believing those who claim to be in a state of presence while doing something like math.  In my experience it doesn't work this way.  I can not be doing math and think about how all is one even while doing math, but at that moment I'm not actually in that experience.  I can claim all is love even while being murdered, but if I was actually being murdered it would be harder. There is a big difference here.  There is a reason Ramana got annoyed and pushed his school books away, and this was after his enlightenment.  

[nistake]

If you find a job/project that you like, then you can stay present without much effort. You can still get distracted but it's much easier to get back to the work. It's like you have a nice project and that's your object of meditation. Your focus is much better and it can induce flow states.

However, if you don't like what you do, well, you can slip into unconsciousness quite easily. Daydreaming, distractions, fantasizing and so on. 

[Mulky]

It is a good idea to make your job a spiritual practice however, since its usually 8 hours a day.  If you pick a job you can meditate at, you will not feel bad about meditating for 8 hours a day, you won't have any temptation, it is like being a professional meditator lol.   Next step is a job where maybe you walk around and do basical physical tasks, staying meditative all day.  Talking all day.... good luck with this one.  Thinking all day.... again good luck.  Anyone who can stay in a meditative state while talking and thinking all day I'm impressed.

[integral]

@RedLine The trick is to keep peripheral awareness during the activity at all times. 

Things to be aware of at all times doing any activity, pick one right now and maintain it in mind during the activity:

- Center of body and the distance it is from your screen.

- The location sounds are coming from in your environment.

- The location of the words on the screen your reading/typing and the distance it is to the objects in the background. Notice the words as if they where physical objects in the room around you. 

- The smoothness of breath.

- Notice the distance between internal thoughts and the objects in the room your in. Notice the distance between your thoughts and the thing your looking at.

- Notice the muscle tension in your hands while you type, try to relax hands to the limit and only use the least amount of force needed to press each key.

- Pretend there is an arrow pointing out of your body forward, then pretend there is a arrow coming out of your eyes, now maintain awareness of both arrows at the same time, at all times. Look in both directions at the same time, do not loss it. Look with the torso forward and with the head direction at the same time.

- Try to be ninja silent at all times, walking, thinking, talking, notice carefully how every sound is effecting the environment and the people around you.

- Pretend your feet are the most important part of the body, keep them in awareness at all times, notice there perspective and experiences(what there looking at from down there).

There is more...- basically play and explore your awareness. Its an instrument that can be played at different levels of mastery. Make everything into a peripheral experience.

Gamify your awareness. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by integral

[RedLine]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

@RedLine The trick is to keep peripheral awareness during the activity at all times. 

Things to be aware of at all times dong any activity, pick one right now and maintain it in mind during the activity:

- Center of body and the distance it is from your screen.

- The location sounds are coming from in your environment.

- The location of the words on the screen your reading/typing and the distance ii is to the objects in the back ground. Notice the words as if they where physical objects in the room around you. 

- The smoothness of breath.

- Notice the distance between internal thoughts and the objects in the room your in. Notice the distance between your thoughts and the thing your looking at.

- Notice the muscle tension in your hands while you type, try to relax hands to the limit and only use the least amount of force needed to press each key.

- Pretend there is an arrow pointing out of your body forward, then pretend there is a arrow coming out of your eyes, now maintain awareness of both arrows at the same time, at all times. Look in both directions at the same time, do not loss it. Look with the torso forward and with the head direction at the same time.

There is more...- basically play and explore your awareness. Its an instrument that can be played at different levels of mastery. Make everything into a peripheral experience.

Gamify your awareness. 

That is very interesting.

 

But isn't that the opposite of what flow and being very focused in one single task is? (what usually is recommended)

 

Also how can I mantain peripheral awareness and be very focus in an intelectual task an the same time? I think they are opposites. I can be concentrated in my feet and mantain peripheral awareness of the "scenario" when I am walking, but it is very comtemplative, it works by itself. When I have to do something that implies mind efford like make calculations on excel I can´t do peripheral awareness + concentration because calculations implies thoughts and manipulation of reality, it is impossible for me.

 

 

[integral]

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

That is very interesting.

 

But isn't that the opposite of what flow and being very focused in one single task is? (what usually is recommended)

 

Also how can I mantain peripheral awareness and be very focus in an intelectual task an the same time? I think they are opposites. I can be concentrated in my feet and mantain peripheral awareness of the "scenario" when I am walking, but it is very comtemplative, it works by itself. When I have to do something that implies mind efford like make calculations on excel I can´t do peripheral awareness + concentration because calculations implies thoughts and manipulation of reality, it is impossible for me.

 

 

The mind is silent during flow states, the focus is on kinesthetic awareness. Awareness of body and motion. For example i play chess and calculate 10+ moves in the future in silence. Visualizing the internal board in the future is merged with the external world. Internal and external are merged. This greatly reduces thinking stress/effort, allows you to relax in the external environment while dreaming. The awareness/experience is on the motion of the pieces in my body. The body and pieces are merged. Often ill look at a chess position and sit there in silence with nothing happening, occasionally having a thought about the position, slowly the depth of understanding of the position grows and grows, see more and more, until  only fantastic insights flood the mind. Point the brain in a direction and remain silent, it will do all the work. 

Deliberate mental calculation is scaffolding that needs to be removed once the mind is trained, but people get stuck with this scaffolding and remain in exhausting focused states. If your concentrating its because your over using your brain. Relax and let the brain think on its own with out you. 

Also do more tasks/hobbies that are kinesthetic centered, this will train and strengthen brain regions associated with kinesthetic motion. Increasing kinesthetic intelligence slowly until your able to see the motion of thoughts and think with motion instead of words/images.

The brain knows what your thinking, we then inefficiently convert does thoughts into words and images. The conversion process is unnecessary, draining and kills flow. Instead work with the raw thoughts directly.

- Try keeping eyes perfectly strait in-front of you with out moving them while doing the task. If eyes need to move, lock it into place at the new position, robotic. Hard core meditators are known to have still dead strait eyes.

Note: it can take time to get into ridim, at first dullness might appear and no progress is made on the task, need to be patient and let the brain ramp up on its own subconsciously. Subconscious priming. 

Forgetting what you are doing/thinking or a broken line of thought will happen if your in the correct state as described above. Eventually with practice it will be consistent. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by integral

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, integral said:

The mind is silent during flow states, the focus is on kinesthetic awareness. Awareness of body and motion. For example i play chess and calculate 10+ moves in the future in silence. Visualizing the internal board in the future is merged with the external world. Internal and external are merged. This greatly reduces thinking stress/effort, allows you to relax in the external environment while dreaming. The awareness/experience is on the motion of the pieces in my body. The body and pieces are merged. Often ill look at a chess position and sit there in silence with nothing happening, occasionally having a thought about the position, slowly the depth of understanding of the position grows and grows, see more and more, until  only fantastic insights flood the mind. Point the brain in a direction and remain silent, it will do all the work. 

Deliberate mental calculation is scaffolding that needs to be removed once the mind is trained, but people get stuck with this scaffolding and remain in exhausting focused states. If your concentrating its because your over using your brain. Relax and let the brain think on its own with out you. 

Also do more tasks/hobbies that are kinesthetic centered, this will train and strengthen brain regions associated with kinesthetic motion. Increasing kinesthetic intelligence slowly until your able to see the motion of thoughts and think with motion instead of words/images.

The brain knows what your thinking, we then inefficiently convert does thoughts into words and images. The conversion process is unnecessary, draining and kills flow. Instead work with the raw thoughts directly.

- Try keeping eyes perfectly strait in-front of you with out moving them while doing the task. If eyes need to move, lock it into place at the new position, robotic. Hard core meditators are known to have still dead strait eyes.

Note: it can take time to get into ridim, at first dullness might appear and no progress is made on the task, need to be patient and let the brain ramp up on its own subconsciously. Subconscious priming. 

Forgetting what you are doing/thinking or a broken line of thought will happen if your in the correct state as described above. Eventually with practice it will be consistent. 

This sounds absolutely amazing.

 

But this is totally alien to me. I don´t really undertand what are the instructions I need to follow. The only instruction I stract from what you said is keep eyes fixed haha. I don´t really know how to let the brain thinks on its own or merger mind and physicality. If I observe the "brain" I am doing nothing, if I am thinking I am the thoughts. I guess a need to be an advanced meditator and then I could bring that skills to no-meditation time.

Edited August 18, 2020 by RedLine

[integral]

@RedLine its easier then it seems, during meditation are you able to see observe thoughts appearing? ok so lets play a game, pretend your head is a speaker and all your thoughts are audible around you, pretend other people can hear your thoughts, notice the location of the thoughts are coming from.  This trains having thoughts while remaining present in the environment. Lets call this "audible thoughts meditation". 

All the exercise i listed in other comments are meditations, in the open eye meditation category. Games to play to increase awareness. Its like practicing an instrument, need to learn many songs with different levels of difficulty and flavor to master it. Play and explore your awareness like a child would.

Edited August 18, 2020 by integral

[cetus]

 

 

[RedLine]

17 hours ago, integral said:

@RedLine its easier then it seems, during meditation are you able to see observe thoughts appearing?

Well, no. In meditation I feel I am the thoughts. What happens when I go deep into meditation is I start to not give a fuck about myslef so I become silence, piece and a little bit merged with the scenario, there are still some thoughts/mental noise but they are  "low volume" and I don´t really care about them. But I wouldn´t say I can "see my thoughts". Maybe I am a newbie and you are an advance so I can´t do all you say yet.

Edited August 19, 2020 by RedLine

[integral]

@RedLine state training can develop very quickly,  does not take 10+ years. The book "integral life practice" covers this, explaining the most optimal way to train the mind. It involves training from multiple angles at the same time.

Edited August 19, 2020 by integral

[integral]

@RedLine sorry wrong link this is the one 

 

[RedLine]

4 hours ago, integral said:

@RedLine state training can develop very quickly,  does not take 10+ years. The book "integral life practice" covers this, explaining the most optimal way to train the mind. It involves training from multiple angles at the same time.

I read that book 5 years ago. Actually didn't find the techniques too powerful.

[Nahm]

@RedLine

While it may seem like you’re doing, moving, thinking, working, you are not. You’re appearing as everything making it seem like you are. How is that practical or applicable?  The former is contraction, tension, stress, issues with focus, concentration, reactions....all resistance to the latter....the latter is flow, liquid, whatever’s happening. ‘Moving’ from the former to the latter is arguably what meditation is ‘for’. It is only attachment in relationship to thoughts, which goes hand & hand with emotional suppression, which perpetuate the former. 

In terms of calming the activity of the mind, I would also look to diet and vision. Eating clean & knowing what you’re doing today is the unfolding of your dream of this life, being aware of how it fits in to the bigger picture you want. There appears to be a duality of doer and nondoer, but there is not.  

[integral]

@RedLine Have you read "The Mind Illuminated" or "The Art of Learning"?

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, integral said:

@RedLine Have you read "The Mind Illuminated" or "The Art of Learning"?

I read TMI and practiced the proposed meditation a couple of months with bad results. I was not able to observe the breath without manipulating it. Then I switch to Do Nothing meditation and results blow up, I enter easily in blisful states, while do Kuladasa meditaiton drove me very neurotic majority of meditation session. I think I am not ready yet for that kind of meditation. I will try in the future again, if I am more grounded. RIght now it is not good for me.

 

I din´t know the second book. I am gonna read it. Thank you.

[Nahm]

Becoming attentive to what one has been inattentive to, is miraculous. Everything changes. 

[integral]

@RedLine When entering into a bliss meditative state, can you open your eyes and close them again wile maintaining the state? or move your hand or stand up and sit back down while maintaining the state?

Try meditating to bliss then open eyes and work/do a task while maintaining that bliss, when the bliss fades stop and meditate back into bliss and start the task again.

Its like repetition in the gym. Same concept. Eventually it will be quicker and quicker to enter into deep states and it can be maintained longer and longer, until it becomes your default state.

Also think to train incrementally with small things like at first meditate to bliss then try ti stand up and sit back down and maintain it. Build up slowly. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by integral