Help me end my dilemma of enligthenment vs survival

[Kalki Avatar]

Guys, as you know enligthenment is no joke nor an easy task. So, I would like to know from your personal experiences how have you dealed with this dilemma in the past. This also goes to any enlightened being in the forum who sees this. 

My dilemma is the following. Is it better to get your shit together in your life and then go full enligthenment or get enlightened & dont suffer but be a misery in the game while it lasts. 

I have tried becoming enlightened in the past and have been close to it, dedicating from 1 to almost 2 years of really nothing else but theorical spirituality, psychology and insane meditation. No social life, no focus on money, no girls, not caring much about my career, job etc. Then I got tired (my ego dragged me down again) because, yes i was feeling amazing and had peace, stillness, clarity, bliss etc.  But, this created alot of external drama. My family thought I was going crazy. I almost got kicked on my job. I almost quitted college. I broke up with my last gf. And no, I wasnt affected at all. I was willing to die physically with no problem whatsoever. The thing is, after that I realized like whats the hurry? Too much speed is from the devil. Maybe even in enligthenment... But, is like, after seeing God I dont want to waste such opportunity and time. But at the same time I would like to have my shit together. Like, what if after enligthenment I become a homeless and I could have prevented that by learning how to trade and build some business that I can still run after liberation. 

From what I have seen from most enlightened people, they continue doing what they did in the past, unless they just become teachers. But, only because they learned that skill in the past. And they do it now as an art form. But if you get enlightened with no skill, you will have no interest in learning it. Which is the case with most sages in India living on the streets.

Its like every year passing by without total liberation is hurting me because it could be a golden year from my youth to explode and explore. Or am I just exagerating? 

And now with so many business and investements opportunities but also so many gurus talking about the apocalypse... Its a dilemma on which to make the best investement and dont regret. 

Maybe this is also happening to someone else here. 

What do you guys think? 

 

[Byun Sean]

If you feel ready and motivated to go balls to the wall with pursuing consciousness and enlightenment because that is what fulfills you and brings you passion and joy in life, then I'd say go for it.

But if it feels like you are doing it to escape suffering or you feel like its the only thing you "should" be doing with your time or something along those lines I'd say it would be better to take it slower and do other things you would like to do. (relationships, career and life purpose, etc).

From personal experience, enlightenment is by far the most fulfilling thing you can ever "do" for yourself in life. But the more you try to rush the process, the further away it may be.

Liberation is about surrendering to suffering not running away from it. Enlightenment is not somewhere else. It is Truth. right here and now. By treating it as somewhere else or some goal you want to achieve in the future all the time you can easily get lost in your mind this way and disconnected from being.

Also you may find it hard to pursue enlightenment if you haven't met some of your lower base needs. Look up Maslows hierarchy of needs. The desire for self-transcendence doesn't arise fully until all the other lower needs are met. If some of the lower needs are not met, you can still pursue enlightenment but you may find it hard to be focused or as motivated on the path.

 

If having a girlfriend, social life, and other areas of your life makes you happy, I'd say work on those areas of your life as well and slow down a bit on the spiritual side. There is no hurry. Take as much time as you need to. The Truth will always be here for you when you are ready.

[Artsu]

When you die, which way will have provided you with the most benefit for your afterlife?

Which way helps other people most?

[Kalki Avatar]

@Byun Sean Thanks for your reply man. Actually I suffer very little and have good self-esteem. I only wanted to run from suffering when I was learning all this stuff. 

But, what I mean most than anything is if its better to cover our life survival needs and then become enlightened or vice versa. I dont care about ego fulfillment. What I mean is simply ordering our lives before total surrender so we can have a better time than vice versa. Im starting to think that it if you dont have a plan covering your survival needs after enligthenment can be a hurdle. Cuz the mind is off and you are to re learn how to socialize from a new source of being and think all the old concepts matrix of society. 

Like, if you were ready right now for enligthenment, what would you choose. Enligthenment and fuck everything by trusting and see where things go or create a system that will cover your needs so that you can get enlightened without any extra hurdles. 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Artsu Enligthenment of course but who knows if I will want to be a teacher after liberation. 

But before you personally get enlightened what would you choose to do first and why. Im not talking about ego fulfillment. I mean like you are ready to die for truth. Would you order your life needs first through some business and then get enlightened. Or just choose enligthenenment and cause alot of drama for you and the people in your surroundings. Seeing where things go. You might die and not make money. How will that impact others? You will be saved but as an incarnation it probably had not much value as it could had. Im talking about having the best life possible. Not rich and lost. Not saved and a misery. 

[iamthat]

2 hours ago, Kalki Avatar said:

My dilemma is the following. Is it better to get your shit together in your life and then go full enligthenment or get enlightened & dont suffer but be a misery in the game while it lasts. 

I have tried becoming enlightened in the past and have been close to it, dedicating from 1 to almost 2 years of really nothing else but theorical spirituality, psychology and insane meditation. ... But, is like, after seeing God I dont want to waste such opportunity and time. But at the same time I would like to have my shit together. Like, what if after enligthenment I become a homeless and I could have prevented that by learning how to trade and build some business that I can still run after liberation. 

From what I have seen from most enlightened people, they continue doing what they did in the past, unless they just become teachers. But, only because they learned that skill in the past. And they do it now as an art form. But if you get enlightened with no skill, you will have no interest in learning it. Which is the case with most sages in India living on the streets.

And now with so many business and investements opportunities but also so many gurus talking about the apocalypse... Its a dilemma on which to make the best investement and dont regret.

Your perspective seems very black and white - it is either one thing or the other. Perhaps the reality is neither.

If you want to get your material life sorted before going for enlightenment then that could take you the rest of your life. The alternative (for you) seems to be that you get enlightened and then you have no financial resources to live on and no skills, and also no interest in developing resources or skills.

Perhaps your concepts about enlightenment are all wrong. They are just ideas in your head. Why would an enlightened person (whatever that might mean) not go out to work like everyone else? Why would enlightenment make them lose all interest in dealing with material existence in all its aspects? The physical body still needs to be fed, clothed, sheltered, cared for. Why would enlightenment suddenly make all that redundant?

As the saying goes, "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." Nothing changes (yet everything changes).

Peace

 

[Johnny5]

Maybe decide not to decide.

A.k.a. release the tiller and let the universe be your secretary.

You can never decide what you really want anyway, you can only discover it.

[VeganAwake]

Who is asking?

Who's dilemma?

Where is the one with a dilemma?

Find that one!!

 

 

[nistake]

Enlightenment won't fix your issues in your practical life. You still need to pay the bills, you still need to interact with people, you still need to take care of your family. But hey, why not going for both? Doing serious consciousness work while having a nice career and/or life purpose, having great relationships, having financial security, travelling, exploring different aspects of life and maybe having some fun in the process sound quite exciting to me.

Even Ramana Maharshi suggested to his students not to quit their practical lives.

[ardacigin]

Focus on integrating mindfulness in daily life so that you don't have to make this choice. You can take all of this action and maintain a certain depth of practice momentum. 

Since you already have some nice training background, you are better off focusing on 'How can I progress spiritually in daily life?' rather than 'I need to drop everything and focus on formal sits'.

It is ideal to do both but the former strategy will enable you to take actions while ensuring some level of spiritual development occurs.

Hope this helps.

Much love,

[LfcCharlie4]

You don’t have to choose! 
 

life is the best spiritual practice you could ask for, make life your highest sadhana. 
 

Also, not sure who told you once people are awake they no longer develop skills or enjoy things, that’s a load of bollocks. You could certainly become an amazing athlete, programmer, gardener etc etc post awakening, just follow whatever you love and it will come from a place of loving to do it instead of having to. 
 

But, yes I would certainly suggest getting the fundamentals dealt with, sort out your nutrition, start an exercise routine, build your social skills, earn lots of money (consciously) etc, but you can do these in a way that only deepens your spiritual practice. 
 

When you see life as your truest spiritual journey, everything you do is revolutionised, you don’t have to be sat cross legged to be meditating, in fact wait until your natural state is simply a meditative one  

Meditation is what you are, not something you do- Rupert Spira. 

[Aaron p]

@Kalki Avatar is it better to get your shit together first or go for enlightenment first...well instantly i's recognise that it will be different for different people. i believe that someone who has a massive, dysfunctional shadow that is making their life a living hell then enlightenment is what that person should go for first. seeing as the shadow [in this instance] is what is stopping such person from "getting their shit together". by the way bro, it seems like your equating "enlightenment" with self neglect. the whole idea that an enlightened person needs to be a loner and have no friends or be poor, is simply religious dogma. with powerful techniques you do not need such self neglect. look at leo, hes literally a millionaire. this is what i'd recommend. when you finish your yoga and your self enquiry, and after you have a reality shattering 5meo trip, go out to a club, get drunk and fuck some bitches. then when you come home, do more yoga and self enquiry. there is lots of dogma here

[Visionary]

And the realization that you will never be enlightened. You will never achieve it.

That might help too.

[Nahm]

@Kalki Avatar

Thoughts are in the movie, not about the movie, so to speak. It’s now, or not at all. There is only spontaneous contextlessness appearance. Into a thought of me, a past, a future...all veils of what is only ever eternally now. Nothing done, undone, or not done in a movie has anything to do with that it is a movie. ‘Movie’ = one whole ineffable free agency. Analogously, a thought about clay is not actually about clay, as thought is ‘clay’. No one is the clay.

“My dilemma is the following. Is it better to get your shit together in your life and then go full enligthenment or get enlightened & dont suffer but be a misery in the game while it lasts.”

Is a thought separate of you? If so, precisely where is the separation? If a thought is not separate of you, then a thought is you. If a thought is you, no thought could be about you. 

“No social life, no focus on money, no girls, not caring much about my career, job etc”

You could say that is the path. That, life, direct experience of desire & relinquishing self limiting beliefs, is the only actual ‘teacher’. Much more so than practices, books, videos, concepts, “dilemmas”, etc. Every occurrence of the feeling of suffering, arising of the wanting and yet met by the avoidance / suppression, procrastination of it, is the actual teaching of what suffering & self limiting beliefs are. 

Every thought is apparent. How else could there ‘be’ thought. 

[Demeter]

On 18/08/2020 at 1:07 AM, Kalki Avatar said:

But, what I mean most than anything is if its better to cover our life survival needs and then become enlightened or vice versa. I dont care about ego fulfillment. What I mean is simply ordering our lives before total surrender so we can have a better time than vice versa. Im starting to think that it if you dont have a plan covering your survival needs after enligthenment can be a hurdle. Cuz the mind is off and you are to re learn how to socialize from a new source of being and think all the old concepts matrix of society.

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 @Kalki Avatar , I agree with everyone here who is suggesting that you do not forsake your practical life. Instead, find a way to integrate your enlightened state into your physical and mental life. Thinks of it this way - your soul chose to take birth and evolve in knowledge and skills, which may indeed be how to integrate the enlightened mind with the demands of this world where you need to take care of your body, provide it with shelter, warmth, nourishment etc. Staying immersed in Enlgishtenment alone is the easy bit in comparison.

You are also a member of the human species and your learnings seep into the species consciousness - thereby you contribute to the evolvement of the whole species mind.

Chris Bache wrote about the same dilemma in this book, which really needs to be read by everyone: LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven .

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Demeter

[Kalki Avatar]

@Aaron p Yeah. But, when I say no money, girls, be alone, etc. Is just for the sake of creating spiritual momentum. Its hard to go deeply within while being distracted by over sensations, pleasure and creating more karma aswell. After enligthenment I would gladly do all those. 

Also, Leo is not enlightened. He is so close to it that he dont want to really attain it. He has my dilemma but on a different context. He thinks that he might not want to do any more actualized.org, or get sex, leave his family or just stop living his nice comfy lifestyle. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Kalki Avatar

[Kalki Avatar]

@LfcCharlie4 This is something I want to know. Like, Im studying law, but at the sametime I dont want to be a formal lawyer. I have needed to change my motivation on it as to just learning the law and structures of society for general knowledge, business and self defense. It has been hard. And now am about to graduate. When I had my first deep enligthenment I wanted to quit college. So, Its like if I go that deep again I might not finish. Idk, maybe I just created a self limiting belief on that. At the same time, I find it hard to resonate with it. I force my self. But i want to finish it, just to get the degree. 

I resonate more towards trading and investements. But as I said, motivations change. What if I also dont want to be an Investor? Wtf im I gonna do lmao. Why do motivations change? Can i still be a Lawyer and Investor? You see what I mean. Instead of doing so much zig zag, if I just get the damn money first, I can then without worries go to Infinity and beyond. I will have the money to do what I want after it. 

Also bro, have Ananda and Ramaji thought you anything similar about this topic? Why ananda quitted her money? Are they rich? 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Demeter Just got the book man. In what chapter and topic is the dilemma? 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Johnny5 @Johnny5 How did you discovered your authentic desires? 

[Kalki Avatar]

@iamthat

Well, from personal experience when im deeply rooted in bliss I-I, I just dont feel like doing anything. I dont want to talk, act or even think. Everything seems so vain and phony in comparison to truth. I dont know if its because im still in the process and have not arrived to stabilize in Infinity yet. Some teachers say that we loose our old motivations. And I do. I dont feel like making money, just doing things for the sake of it and its hard. I almost have to force my self. Its like I just want to die already, go mahasamadhi. Stay all day in the bliss of Iam. Another thing is, when im practicing alot of spirituality I loose my social skills and desires. My personality just drops and people find me a little bit weird. Like theres something wrong. And I get that, its actually a radical change from a charismatic personality to almost a silent no body. Right now I have lost a bit of my spiritual momentum and have just lived in the mundane for a while. Im trying to look for new strategies on how to integrate both successfully without causing external drama.