Understanding Spiritual Talent

[Florian]

Hey, I wanna understand spiritual talent cause I read something about it here and there on the forum and it interests me, but I still don't really understand it.

So:  -Is it the same or different from talent in other fields where the rule is generally practice over talent (from what I learned)?

       -Does it have an effect on psychedelic use, for example do people with more spiritual talent get better results from psychedelics?

       -Is it random or does it have a cause (I heard something about karma)

       -Does Leo just use it as an excuse to demotivate others and keep his image of a very special person alive? (That's just a question I have because the first time I read something about spiritual talent it seemed that way to me, but I don't really understand it and maybe I am just projecting or something, don't mean to be offensive with this question) Edit: maybe not purely for this but partly

      -What could people with great spiritual talent offer this world?

      -Can people with less spiritual talent never become as good at spirituality as people who have more spiritual talent?

Edited August 17, 2020 by Florian

[bejapuskas]

What do you mean by results from psychedelics and being good at spirituality?

[Nahm]

Spirit is love. You’re entire life is the developing of this talent.  If you want to be spiritually talented, just love a whole bunch as often as possible with as little condition as possible. Get to know the most nuanced ‘places’ of your conscience, you’re liberated profoundly as you do. Dedicate some of your time, energy and or resources to this on behalf of others, and you might even experience some siddhi’s and more paranormal facets of healing & well being. In being the empty vessel of healing, you also experience healing (love). It is most worthwhile. The talent is the very love you already know, but may have not yet experienced viscerally in effortless ‘action’ , and in such subtly, intensity & experiential volume. Love can light your bones on fire with bliss, and rewire your dna, brain & mind. Have to ‘go see’ though.  Only if you’re interested. It makes no difference at all wether you do or not. However, much understanding is unveiled, even the recognition of understanding itself. 

Something else you might consider or even readily notice...all comparisons are to a you, which there isn’t, so the comparison is counter productive to the actualizing. Rather than compare, dream big on making this place better somehow...more beautiful, more fun & less harsh, more equitable, etc. Fun to discuss & speculate, but thought I’d mention. 

[Florian]

@bejapuskas Well, with psychedelics I can't say much since I don't take them but with being good at spirituality I mean like being closer to god or I guess rather being aware of that. I am not really into spirituality yet so can't really say what spirituality is.

[Artsu]

We have inclinations and life trajectories from the time we are conceived, but we actually have to work at it through life to get good at it.

There are different levels of spiritual ability a person could possess in the future depending on what they do.

People with spiritual talent will generally have an easier time with psychedelics. It will be less foreign and easier to master.

A person who is both spiritual and morally good can effect a great change in the world, without outwardly seeming like they are doing much at all. Think of the monk in the monastery who is simultaneously boosting up the consciousness of mankind. Those who are spiritually strong but morally bad also effect great change, but a lot of destruction and pain goes with it.

Those who advance faster spiritually may keep the lead forever, but things do change.

Don't be bleak if you're not spiritually talented. Use what you have to become better than you are now. What more can be asked of you?

 

Edit: it's hard to say what causes it. Thats a deep question.

Spiritual strength would be an indicator of someone's ability to learn spiritual material, such as what Leo discusses. It's like saying someone isn't good at maths. Factually, that could be completely true, but if they still want to learn maths, encouragement should go with it.

I think everyone can learn great spiritual truth and ability, because we all have a spirit, and we all will become far more spiritual than we currently are. A lot comes down to overcoming your inner resistance to such things.

 

(Post 707)

Edited August 18, 2020 by Artsu

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

all comparisons are to a you

and to a them 

Yet, these imaginary facets of reality are sort of your scaffold to build off... like bootstrapping. 

I mean, you don't know what you believe. You're not aware of the deep beliefs lurking in the subconscious. And the spiritual path in a sense is revealing these beliefs. Which is not straightforward because you don't know they are there in the first place. And liberation is largely from revealing and letting go of these things. 

And we all have unique set of hidden beliefs, and while you and me aren't there, we are just appearances, comparing you and me is the right way can reveal these hidden beliefs. Like for example, figuring out the most effective meditation technique could mean comparing the techniques you use to me, even though we aren't actually there. And of course when you really break down what an 'effective' meditation technique is, it doesn't make any sense because there's no you, and you're not progressing or going anywhere because there's just THIS, yet paradoxically its necessary and useful for the path to find the most effective technique.

Or you think that's ^^^^^^^^^^^^ BS. Feel like hearing your perspective on that. 

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

Are you saying the person with the best techniques is most spiritually talented? 

...and that duality of self & other is the scaffold for spirituality?

[lmfao]

@Florian Everything Leo has said is just his opinion. Like anyone else. 

Talent still isn't a thing which is understood or can be pinned down. There is a grey area to this topic which can be seen. As an example. Let's suppose it's someone's dream to become a world class physicist. Their IQ is 130. There are other people with the same goal who have an IQ of 160. Will those 160 IQ people just outcompete the other person? 

There are hidden things about people that most of us don't notice and think about. People are shallow, we all want instant result and can only see the blatantly obvious in a reductionistic way. Everyone runs on finding quick fixes, wanting results without sacrifice or practice. Most of society operates on a fixed mindset on steroids. That only the ultra talented or blessed geniuses can compete. 

Maybe this 130 IQ person has a unique form of processing and cognition that makes him qualitatively different from everyone else, yet he appears slow at first from the outside. But he's quietly building himself up, and unexpectedly strikes.

People are too quick to judge capabilities and can only think with a single metric. Fixed mindset. This applies to any area, spirituality in this case. 


In the theoretical ideal, is talent very important? Very well could be. But 99.9999...% of us including me are not nearly conscious enough to judge what this theoretical ideal is, so you're better off discarding a lot of your ideas about it. 

If we have the tendency to call everyone who succeeds talented, to reaffirm this fixed mindset, it's circular no? 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by lmfao

[electroBeam]

@Nahm I wasn't referring to talent specifically... 

29 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

...and that duality of self & other is the scaffold for spirituality?

Yes.

What I'm trying to get at is... balancing non duality with duality. It doesn't feel right to totally discard every dualistic thought or understanding, even if in spirituality we are taught to let them go. In Zen, they tend to say that neither duality or non duality is true/false, they are both true and false at the same time, and I tend to resonate with that. 

As an extreme example, there is no you, yet we don't go to the tax man and say there's no one paying our taxes.

And on the spiritual path, there is no you, yet its sometimes useful to assume there's a you when you're growing on the spiritual path. Like there's no you yet you're still assuming there's a you(or maybe not assuming there is a you but you're playing a character at the very least) to carry out your persona as a spiritual teacher helping others. So you're both holding the stance of there being no you, yet there is a you. And this is part of your spiritual journey, part of your growth. 

So there's both non duality (knowing the truth) and duality (playing the role of a spiritual teacher) happening at the same time, and on my specific journey I'm up to the stage of balancing them out. Not going so far as to say there's no spiritual teachers because there's no you, but at the same time not going so far (spiritual ego) as to say I am enlightened, I am a spiritual teacher, and I am this thing and that thing. 

 

You just triggered that question in me with your last paragraph so I'd thought I'd get your perspective on that. 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is sort of related to spiritual talent too. Because even though there's no you and so comparing yourself to others doesn't make sense, paradoxically its also very useful to compare yourself to others in some instances... hence why Leo probably feels inclined to do so. For example, if you come to the conclusion somehow that you're less spiritually talented than Ramana Maharshi (I'm not saying its True, I'm just saying you come to that conclusion somehow) you'll also come to the conclusion that your meditation practice needs to be 1000x more rigorous than his, and THAT could help you on your journey, even though comparing yourself to ramana maharshi is completely stupid in a way because there's no you or him. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by electroBeam

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

Yes. Like if you watched a movie about not playing a role, that would be the role somebody was playing. 

Yet only to you. They actually aren’t there. Which of course would be obvious...

if you were more spiritually talented. 

[electroBeam]

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

Yet only to you. They actually aren’t there. Which of course would be obvious...

if you were more spiritually talented. 

If the character was more spiritually talented, that would be obvious. Strange loop much. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I was trying to get at something else. A holistic perspective where you see the value in duality and how it all connects together. Anyway thanks for the replies. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by electroBeam

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

?

Yes, jk of course. I agree. I was talking about understanding spiritual talent more specifically. It’s love, or you might say love’s. Comparison, measurement, scrutiny is none other as well. Measure on. ??  

I would argue however, there’s no loop there as there’s no character there. The impression doesn’t loop. 

[electroBeam]

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@electroBeam

I would argue however, there’s no loop there as there’s no character there. The impression doesn’t loop. 

+1

I'd argue further that the loop is an appearance with no substance. That's almost, but not quite the same as saying the loop isn't there at all. 

There's just this non duality/duality paradox that I'm feeling about this whole thing that I can't put my finger on.

Anyway I'm open to being full of it. Thanks for the replies!

[Nahm]

@electroBeam

Full of it is our only possible talking point. ? Life’s a single blank cue card. (And not even Lol) 

[bejapuskas]

@Florian  Be careful about using concepts you don't understand when asking questions, it can be distracting. What do you expect spirituality will bring you? Be brutally honest  It's hard to know what is good for you (not for everyone) if you don't create the meaning for that word, right.