STUDY GROUP--The Book of Not Knowing--

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))
 

 

Exercise:

Self-Doubt

(kind of went into free-flow writing with this one… sorry if it feels disconnected)
 

I have an aversion to inauthenticity. Almost Ocd-like, so much so that in  social situations I can't stand not being authentic.   The problem is, I run a service industry business and I'm not always authentically happy, cheerful and sweet. I detest that I can't be this way- what's expected of me- at all times.

 

Now… many of the times when I'm not being authentic, it's actually a cover-up because I don't feel like its ok to be authentic. So then I do silly things that are in many ways self-sabotage. All of these I judge myself for later.

I don't feel enough.. Good enough, smart enough, strong enough, loving enough, witty enough, fun enough, silly enough… list goes on and on. I don't feel enough. 

I don't feel enough.

 Marijuana returns feeling. That's one of its gravitational pulls. I feel more authentic in a Marijuana dream. I feel like my childlike self. I miss my childlike self.  That sense of wonder returns. I stopped feeling it when sober. I miss it when its not there.

 

I don't feel enough. I don't feel like I am enough. That 'I' alone is better than all the shit I use-- to try and make everything better. I am covering myself up in some twisted way of also looking for myself. The cultural way of seeking is always 'out there'. Actually,  I'm right here. And always have been.

 

No I am not the same on the outside as I am inside. There are many guards up. Many many. So many, and I've been tearing them down for years already. I'm so extremely guarded. I miss childhood. I miss innocence. These guards are for others but also myself. I guard myself from peace, and from letting go. Do I enjoy this? Why else would I do it if I don't enjoy it?

I doubt that I am enough. And that I'm good. I judge myself very harshly. Many times I hate myself. Many times, I can't believe I'm so fucking awesome. But…  I'm talking about a hologram named Justin. Who I identify as. I'm not claiming I've stopped identifying as Justin.. But I also see it.

 

My self-doubt comes in not knowing who I am, if I'm not Justin. But immediately the answer arises, I'm me regardless. I can 'be' Justin but he's not exclusive. I have proof of this, because every single night I am someone else. Daytime Justin and night time Justin are so extremely different (yet familiar), I cannot ever say that they are the same. Therefore every  night I have experiences of being someone else than I claim to be in the "real world".  One thing remains: I still ALWAYS am ME. I'm fucking me. Regardless. And I love alternate experiences. However, they don't define.  I don't know who I am but I can tell you one thing: Myself.

Yes someone might be surprised if they suddenly could see into my mind and heart. I don't exhibit boundless joy and energy like I used to. Again, I miss my childlike exuberance. It means that I'm not as authentic on the outside and I am on the inside, when I'm not even fully authentic inside. (Sidenote: inside of what? I already know I'm not (just) body, so inside of what? Is there as such thing as inside?) another sidenote: this condition came long before my habitual marijuana usage. Losing religion to homosexuality was a major factor.

Yes some outwardly aspects of myself are fake. But the weird thing is I abhor being fake. And at the same time I tell myself that I have to fake being nice and happy all the time because its expected of me as a business owner.  This is hard to wrap my head around if its just a belief or not, because  how could it not be true? 

I don't know if I would feel better if my outsides and insides matched.  

When I focus in on this background sense of uncertainty, I feel: that I'm not good enough, that I should be better, that everything would be better if I was better. I am ashamed when I don't know. I was brought into my trade completely green, and one of the biggest challenges was not knowing something. It froze me solid. Inexperience killed me. This was a huge catalyst to self improvement and brought me to this forum. 

at the heart of this feeling: I still look outside for validation and love. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

Exercise:

Suffering

 

I have experienced forms of suffering, such as:  bad self esteem in school- was bullied a lot from middle school on, and had no friends from that time until I went to college. Then I realized homosexuality and was alienated from my dogmatic christian family. Thank god I had my mom, who also had her own awakening around the same time I did….actually she beat me to it and gave me the space for it to manifest.  Thanks mom!!

Suffering does not drag on continuously, thankfully there are also moments of clarity, love, completeness, and contentedness. Its interesting, I do not feel suffering in much of my life outside work, unless I'm at home thinking about work. Work brings 99% suffering, even though there are many things going on at home like termite damage in house and a depressed, possibly bipolar husband. Much energy is spent thinking about work. Home seems like a cake-walk.

I meet this suffering by whining, avoiding, tantrums, covering, compartmentalizing, obsessing, hating, loving, questioning. Possibly running to an alternate form of suffering. 

The core of experience of my emotional pain? Fear of uncertainty. I'm scared of the unknown, every bit as scared as when I used to love it.

I still love uncertainty on a great roller coaster or amazing cinematic experience. The unknown could also bring pain, and I'm obsessively scared of pain. Even seeing that pain is self inflicted, that fear remains.

It exists because i believe in it. Sorry, I love beliefs.  Kind of addicted to them, in a way that I don't mind identifying with them. They're beautiful. And they make a wonderful excuse for many things.  Such as not letting go of them.

An unnoticed suffering would be: maybe what I'm doing to my body, since I don't think long term and only about what I see right now, which is not immediate changes from how it's treated. 

I endure it because… its inevitable. A cultural-matrix self will inevitably suffer, like the best kind of art. Culture itself is ART.

I definitely see the manifestation of suffering. It's built on the foundation of self-doubt  and emptiness. Of want. Of believing thought.

I get nothing out of this suffering, except perhaps the dopamine rush of bliss when the suffering ends and I feel peace once more. I become disinterested in everything except how much my life sucks in relation to what is bringing suffering. I'm very dramatic.
 

Edited August 24, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

Exercise

Struggling

 

I do not experience a deep inner peace all the time. I struggle with my career and the direct fact that my reputation is on the line. This sends me into frenzies ,because things go wrong ALL THE TIME. It's the nature of the business, but (in belief) I'm not strong enough to handle it.  I do try to replace my bad habits and unconscious behaviors and thinking patterns with positive ones, and this creates inner struggling.

When I don't feel peaceful, there is this background worrying that things are wrong. That work is going horrible, and I'm not good enough to fix things. I remind myself that I have fixed a lot, and work is only a 10th as stressful as is used to be, but I'm still very dramatic about that 10 percent.

 I want an effortless perfection, one that takes a lot of effort to get there, but then everything runs smoothly and problems are dealt with when they occasionally arise. I don't know how unreasonable this expectation is, but it does require every single member of my team working toward the same goal. My struggle is navigating this while also battling my own demons and irritability.  This struggle is a strange loop, in that it feeds my demons and also grounds them. I feel stuck in this battle, because husband refuses to sell the salon for the sake of my own mental well being. I would have to divorce him and run away, or ride this out-- the only two options of getting out of this.

 When I was off for 30 days during covid-shutdown, I felt no struggle besides the occasional tiff with husband… I found myself again and I liked who I was. He's gone already as the stress of work returned. Not gone, but not as bright. I'm a slave to work, and it does suck the light out like a vacuum.

This all hinges on the belief that work is hard and stressful, and that I'm not good enough to handle it.

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

Learning versus Knowing

Chapter Four: 1-8 

 

4:1-2

The author asks us to think about breathing. He asks if inhaling or exhaling is more important. We see the question as nonsense because breathing is one of the first things we put a veil over and forget about, even though it literally fuels a physical body. But even something so forgotten can be 'fine tuned and improved', but not if we pretend we know all about breathing. Exhaling and inhaling are equally important, one can not exist without the other.

 

4:3

He says this is similar to knowing and not knowing. A balance must be struck. Oh I see, not-knowing is also similar to breathing because its always there but we have ignored it so much we don't even recognize it. It is always there, being the requisite to knowing. When we resist not-knowing (because cultural programming) we are also hindering the very thing we seek-- knowing. Same as if we decided not to exhale. Inhalation would not take place. (except when survival kicks in and exhalation is unconsciously activated.)

 

4:4-5
Cultural programming rules our relationship with knowing. It makes us grasp for knowing, instead of giving not-knowing its due space. We should be seeking to learn something unfamiliar- if we don't then we are just adopting more beliefs.

 

4:6-7
The author's meaning of 'letting go of knowledge' does not refer to a 'meditative letting go' in hopes of 'getting there'. Nor does he wish us to take a cultural thought on it and completely dismissing the notion in fear of ignorance.

4:8
He warns us of trying to turn the negative view of not-knowing into a "positive" stance by "seeing not-knowing as a relaxing meditation." This is because we will still put assumptions on it and assumptions kill not-knowing (and subsequently knowing.)

Edited August 28, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

Thinking without a Net
Chapter Four: 9-17

4:9-10
Experiences of not-knowing, even brief glimpses, are like a doorway to a new (reclaimed) world of wonder.  It's not enough to have an idea of not knowing, you must experience this state of not-knowing. (geez doesn't that sound familiar.)  Otherwise, this is still a cultural 'knowing and not knowing"-- just a concept in either direction.

 

4:11-12
In the venture to know who you are, the first VERY important step is to genuinely have the insight that you do not know. (Even now I can sit here and say I don't know who I am, without all the labels, but I haven't actually dropped all the label yet. So this prerequisite to knowing myself has not been met.)

 

4:13
This is true for any inquiry. Anytime you seek to know something, you much experience the not-knowing>>knowing, and not apply the cultural labels and thought processes.

 

4:14-15
The author expresses the importance of not taking this book as some kind of way to think your way into not-knowing. This book is a pointer and the tools presented must be practiced for a genuine experience. Try not to conceptualize what's being presented and merely absorb and experience.

 

4:16-17
Don't jump to conclusions. Experience, now.
 

Edited August 27, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:17 AM, seeking_brilliance said:

4:1-2

The author asks us to think about breathing. He asks if inhaling or exhaling is more important. We see the question as nonsense because breathing is one of the first things we put a veil over and forget about, even though it literally fuels a physical body. But even something so forgotten can be 'fine tuned and improved', but not if we pretend we know all about breathing. Exhaling and inhaling are equally important, one can not exist without the other.

 

4:3

He says this is similar to knowing and not knowing. A balance must be struck. Oh I see, not-knowing is also similar to breathing because its always there but we have ignored it so much we don't even recognize it. It is always there, being the requisite to knowing. When we resist not-knowing (because cultural programming) we are also hindering the very thing we seek-- knowing. Same as if we decided not to exhale. Inhalation would not take place. (except when survival kicks in and exhalation is unconsciously activated.)

A byproduct of Centering Prayer meditation practice is 'objectless awareness' or non-conceptual awareness. To me if feels like a push beyond just plain inner silence. The range of human emotion has quite a spread. In the past I was especially bothered by constant neurotic internal dialogue. Just plain ole inner silence has felt like a blissful state of consciousness after months,, years, maybe where there was just confusion, no real understanding and often, a felt sense of meaninglessness. I'm still not above having negative states of consciousness, accompanied by too much thinking, slight paranoia with mumbles and argumentative jabs from the crew members of my ship of fools. The seas are just a little smoother than in the past. Excuse me please if I'm wearing out the allegory of the ship,,, It's an attempt at lightheartness concerning a serious state of affairs. It didn't really start that way for me but as time goes on, I find more and more depth to it.

Maurice Nicoll's 1766 page Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky was so enjoyable to read that when I finished it I read it again just a few months later. This work has been condensed down to 130 Pages called Gems Of Wisdom, and its just one great quote after another. I'm not trying to sell anyone on the Fourth Way but just use what part of this that you find meaningful and leave the rest. I was just going to quote the first and third paragraph but I decided to just leave the 2nd in place even though it uses a specific term that may seem weird to some. Maybe not though. These quotes really seem applicable to the last couple of chapters.

SEEING THE OPPOSITES

“Try sometimes to see the opposite point of view to that which you hold...If the opposite is genuinely and with effort included in con- sciousness the sphere of consciousness is greatly increased and a number of unpleasant features in us disappear. Our one-sidedness, which causes our over-sensitive reactions and also our totally wrong ways of self-evaluation, is replaced by a broader, fuller consciousness. We can no longer insist we are right nor be cast down when proved to be wrong. We find it more difficult to be petty. In fact, we begin to escape from the prison of ourselves whose bars and gates result from our one-sidedness.” V. 5, p. 1521

THIRD FORCE

“The Work teaches that there are three forces in every manifesta- tion. We see only two—if we see as far as that...Third Force lies between the opposites and so we can picture it as the mid-point of the pendulum-swing. If you take the feeling of ‘I’ out of both sides of the pendulum, then you do not feel yourself through the opposites and the feeling of ‘I’ moves to the centre, into nothingness, or, if you pre- fer, into not-somethingness. Here in the middle is the place or state where ‘Real I’ is.” V. 1, pp. 329-30

INNER SILENCE

“Different ‘I’s, ranged along the orbit of the swing, wish to say now this and now that, as the light of consciousness touches them, wakes them to momentary life. To a limited extent one may permit them to speak, provided one has a distinct idea that neither side is right. Inner silence means being silent in oneself. It means not taking sides in yourself and so being silent. This is impossible if you identify with every ‘I.’ You may let talk take place on one side or the other, but you observe it and are in yourself silent.” V. 1, p. 334 

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot I would be interested in hearing more about the fourth way  just out of curiosity of course

The first paragraph sounds like an intuitive empathy ... I like in the second  and third paragraph how he talks about the pendulum swing... 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

@seeking_brilliance  I'm glad to hear that. I'll try to keep my comments here relative to this book study or any comments you  may make. The George Gurdjieff thread in High Consciousness Resources will have material that is 100% Fourth Way relevant. Below is a link to a Maurice Nicoll thread I made a while back which contains a link to Gems of Wisdom. I'm open to questions about the Fourth Way anytime in my Journal or private message.

Perhaps I should start a thread on the Fourth Way,,,,

[seeking_brilliance]

8 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Perhaps I should start a thread on the Fourth Way,,,,

Do it! 

My posts will start slowing down since things seems to be already getting real dense and will take time to unpack each section.  Not to mention I'm not allowed much time to work on it ? #married life 

[seeking_brilliance]

 

What is an Experience?
Chapter Four: 18-29

 

4:18
My present experience: while reading, the dog came and licked my hand. I ignored her and she left, but the feeling of cold stickiness is rather gross on my wrist. There actually is a lawnmower in background, and the husband is watching the tv rather loudly in the living room. I'm a bit anxious about work today because yesterday was stressful. 

(its funny, all of these things happened in sequential order of noticing, but I'm gathering them all together now in expression….)

 

4:19
Experience is always here, now, and its like a t.v. that is always switched on. Yet its hard to describe and talk about,( since we really only are caught up in focused aspects of experience, mostly about how we are affected by it)

There are two basic definitions for the word experience:

1: when an object, though, or emotion is sensed or perceived.

2: to live through, personally.

 

4:20
We can experience through physical action or imaginary production.  For example I can think about answering the phone and what might happen, or actually answer the phone and experience what happens. Both are experiences. 

 

4:21-22
Even in an answered phone call, how much can we say we really experienced? If we were to write a list of experiences about the phone call, most of it would include thoughts, emotions or reactions about the call. To truly experience it is something free of labels. The raw experience of the audio coming through the speaker, for example.

4:23
In another example, a rock maintains its physical façade and properties regardless of what thought we put onto it. To truly experience the rock, one must put awareness onto it without the overlay of reactions to it.

 

4:24-226
likewise we can experience an idea, rather than thinking it.

2:27

Every experience of something is overlaid with thoughts about it. When we are identifying with the thoughts about an experience, we are not experiencing. (the experience of having thoughts is a whole different domain and definition from this true experience we are talking about here. So much so that maybe it should have a different word)

 

2:28

Likewise we mistake our thoughts of being aware, with the raw experience of awareness.

2:29

This idea of experiencing awareness rather than thinking about it and putting conceptualized labels on it…  I dunno… something I 'get' but can't quite put my finger on it. I spend most of my awake hours distracting myself with video games, work, t.v., this book study, etc. I need to sit with this notion of experiencing awareness itself… dammit that's what meditation is for I'm sure… maybe soon….

Edited August 30, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

4:30-31
For the insight into my own experience, I must admit that I don't know. I must give that not-knowing it's space to flourish. One of the problems here, and I can relate, is that the mind wants to look for something in the space of not-knowing. It can't fathom that this space is nothing, and without substance. That's not to say its not a real experience.  Its not that my experience will disappear, or that perception ends, that that whatever is perceived is in the moment is 'recognized as distinct from the state of not-knowing."

 

4:32
Not-knowing is the opposite (I feel like that's the wrong word… more like… coexisting) of what is perceived. It's what isn't perceived or experienced. Placing awareness on this state finds nothing. Open, unfilled; in a sense-- empty. The author promises, however, that a "true experience of this state…is more dramatic than you would think."  Until this experience, all we have is a concept of a state devoid of knowing. (again, I can relate… I've been pulling up this concept, however, when I readily admit that I just don't know things, throughout my day. )

 

4:33

--It is in the emptiness within the cup that makes it useful --- Lao-tzu--

When we look at a cup, we see what is there, we see things about the cup, such as its form and usefulness, but when we add in what is not the cup-- such as its surroundings, and the fact that not-cup MUST exist for there to be the-cup-- so it is with not-knowing.  This gives a more whole experience of the cup, being able to shift our focus/awareness on the-cup AND the importance of not-cup.

3:34-35
The moment anything is perceived, labels and assumptions are immediately applied to it like at the speed of light. (no wonder this is so tricky!) If we can simultaneously pull in this feeling of not-knowing into awareness, we pull the taken for granted perception into a "fresh and present encounter." A keener perception of what is encountered. (awesome, I've already been practicing that!)

 

4:36
Like Susan's drawing, when you can look at an object while simultaneously lifting the veils that 'knowing/assumptions/labels' create-- you see it for what it really is.

4:37
OK I'm looking at a sock on the floor. I know it’s a sock--I have memories of it being on my foot--I know its made of cloth of some kind--I see black stripes on what would be the sole-- but as I'm looking I'm trying to also forget that I know what it is and just see the scene for itself. I'm taking it in… not pulling up labels, or gently letting them go as they arise….I'm trying to replace any thought with… "hmmm… what?" (my idea, not from the book)

In conclusion, at least for now.. Its very hard to see it as not a sock. This may take much more practice.

4:38-49
(oops never mind I guess replacing labels with the wonder-thought-- what it it?-- is actually a suggestion from this paragraph)  The author doesn't want me to pretend I don't know, he wants me to get in touch with this very true fact and then do the practice throughout the day. 

Once I recognize that I really don't know-- the real inquiry begins. In this curious inquiry, answers will come and go, but the inquiry won't be satisfied until a true insight arises.

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

What Is an Insight?
Chapter Four: 40-45

4:40-41
An insight is not a thought or belief (though I guess thoughts and beliefs will build themselves around insights if you aren't careful). Its an actual genuine experience of what's true regarding your inquiry.

4:42
Insights go beyond belief. They are defined by author as "a sudden awakening in our consciousness when we realize something is true and authentic."

4:43-44
(my only skepticism is what if many insights are still only based on cultural programming and not getting to the source of truth? My baptist preacher father and brother have insights left and right. They are still biggots.)

4:45
(It seems to be about discovering what's true in your own experience… I can see that this could bring some kind of altruistic insight eventually,  but how many are duds along the way? Just my own thoughts… That being said I get that there's true value in foraging insights for yourself instead of taking what everyone else tells you for granted. I just feel like so far, this is only half the battle.)

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

Four Cornerstones of Discovery
Chapter Five: 1-7

 

5:1-2
Having an insight can be exhilarating because it can alter our perceived reality so much it's like stepping into a fresh world.  Its an "authoritative experience that begins with a state of not-knowing."  Our beliefs and assumptions lock us into a reality that's not open to other possibilities. This chapter will teach us four principles that will empower our inquiries into what's true about anything.

 

5:3
One main goal is to gradually step aside from our notion of being into discovering what is actually true about being.

 

5:4
To strip away everything I 'know' about myself would bring me closer to the real me.  It starts with not-knowing, otherwise the inquiry only confirms what is already known. The investigation into my self must begin with what I presently experience as myself and then work my way from there.

 

5:5-6
For now we are to imagine what it might be light to experience our authentic self, free of all the labels and beliefs, and just rest in what would remain. We will be looking much deeper into how a self is created and maintained.

5:7
There is a certain principle of discovery we are attempting to adopt here. The author has identified four cornerstones of this principle: Authentic experience, honesty, grounded openness, and  questioning, These foundations of inquiry are not to be taken as moral codes, but as catalysts into true discovery.

Edited September 3, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

Insight seems to be synonymous with understanding. In the Fourth Way, it is said that understanding is achieved through a combination of work on knowledge and work on Being.

I'm not sure where to put a thread for the Fourth Way. I guess I could in with the Journals. Any opinions from the Moderators?

[seeking_brilliance]

@Zigzag Idiot lol who knows if anyone is reading this thing... I would think a presentation on the Fourth Way would fit well in the first two forums.  Maybe just post a few chunks at a time for easier digestion 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@seeking_brilliance Good idea,,,

[seeking_brilliance]

((Reading music, or you can listen to it before reading to settle the mind))

 

Authentic Experience
Chapter Five: 8-15

 

5:8
The first cornerstone is like the carrot on the end of a string. It's what propels the whole inquiry- the pursuit of what's authentic and real. This will be benefited by daily practice of seeking out what's authentic about any situation or stimuli, and not subscribing to beliefs about them.

 

5:9
It can also refer to 'having a direct conscious experience of being'-- and the author equates this to awakening or enlightenment. However, as with anything, results may vary and at the very least the questioner will have a direct experience of what's true in inquiries.

 

5:10-11
In cultural knowledge, there's two widely accepted ways of obtaining knowledge. That's either the scientific method, or the 'spiritual' one of hearing what someone says and adopting as a belief. (how ironic, that's not spiritual at all lol) Either way, though, a belief is adopted if one is not getting a direct experience of what's true.

 

5:12
One must acknowledge that the truth can be found in the object of inquiry, that it’s the thing's inherent nature and can't be found by beliefs or conclusions. Author acknowledges something that I've been skeptic on… how can one pick something at random and experience the direct truth of it, without adopting any beliefs or hearsay? I guess we can only continue and find out…

 

5:13-14
However he does promise this is possible, and must happen completely 'independent of our perceptions.' And even this claim he does want us to accept as true (belief) but to experience the truth of it ourselves.

 

5:15
I have already been getting used the idea that I don't know jack shit-- but I sat back and let it set in again. I am so tired of pretending to know things. All that misplaced energy maintaining that could be put to better use elsewhere.

 

Honesty
Chapter Five:16-22

~~Anything more than the truth would be too much. ---Robert Frost~~

5:16
Honesty is integral to an authentic experience because pure honesty is a call to drop our reactions to the subject, and be open to what is authentically there. Often, we hear the word honesty and mistake our reactions to that word as the real authentic experience of what the word represents.

5:17

We are habitually not authentically honest. Like clockwork, any times an unaware experiencer encounters an experience, it is so overlaid with thoughts, beliefs, biases, etc. that we don't typically ever experience anything in its pure authentic form. Not without giving up cultural knowing, that is. We are not searching for the cultural definition of honesty, but 'aligning ourselves with what is already true.'

5:18-22

Basically just learn to be honest with yourself. This inquiry can't begin without it.

Edited September 6, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[seeking_brilliance]

 

 

Grounded Openness
Chapter Five: 23-33

Definitions of "open".

5:23-25

It's not enough to be conceptually open, because this can lead to issues not immediately noticeable on the surface. It's important to learn and practice true openness, an openness that's grounded in experience and not intellectually.

 

5:26-27
Open goes with honesty. One must be honest with themselves to see if they are really open. Conceptual openness leads to false truths about experience and hollow answers.  One must operate from openness instead of trying to appear open.

 

5:28-33
There is also groundedness without being open. This is people who have experiences (grounding) and become stuck in their opinions which have formed. Not open to new ideas or that they are plainly wrong. Balance is absolutely key.

 

Questioning
Chapter Five: 34-40
 

--The only zen you find on mountaintops is the Zen you bring up there. -- Robert M. Pirsig ----

5:34
It's important to see the difference between true questioning and data search. I.e.-what time is it? Or Where is Alaska?  Are examples of mere data search.

 

5:35-36
Pretty self explanatory.

 

5:37
Questioning is a very real and personally deep experience, with openness to the possibility that you may discover something you didn't already know about the object of inquiry. Such questioning "remains unattached to any answer or outcome."  "…questioning demands real wondering, and wondering demands not-knowing."

 

5:38-40
I am to now stop and use my tool of not-knowing to really inquire into what is questioning.  I will do this and report when I do the exercises from this chapter.

 

--The moment one gives close attention to anything, even a blade of grass, it becomes a magnificent world in itself-- Henry Miller-- 

Edited September 9, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[Zigzag Idiot]

5 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

5:37
Questioning is a very real and personally deep experience, with openness to the possibility that you may discover something you didn't already know about the object of inquiry. Such questioning "remains unattached to any answer or outcome."  "…questioning demands real wondering, and wondering demands not-knowing."

The specific intent or situational practice of - 'not reaching any conclusions ' has been very helpful for me at times when strong emotions are trying to take over. Like when a part of me is really wanting to put a judgement on others or a situation. But  it's only helpful to the degree that I remember that intent. As Red Hawk puts it- Sometimes I eat the Bear but sometimes the bear eats me. The Bear perhaps being the painbody in Eckart  Tolle speak.

Not reaching conclusions seems to help cultivate a spaciousness that compulsive overthinking stands out in contrast to and can then be easier let go of. In my experience of it,,, Wait a minute! Did I just reach a conclusion about the benefit of not reaching conclusions? ?

[seeking_brilliance]

Exercises: 

1.

Coming from a space of not knowing about questioning (free flow writing) :

What is questioning? I question when I don't know. but do I really know what questioning is? Is it an act? Perhaps that's an advanced question but for now we will say that there is an act of questioning following the awareness of not knowing. And if I really want to know, then I have to ask good questions. That means perhaps that not all questioning is fruitful at all times. With less awareness, my questions would be dull or in a paradigm loop that only begs more answers. There must the a question that yields a true answer, or at least points an arrow.

 

  So what is questioning? It's applying intuitive wisdom to ask the right questions, coming from an awareness of not knowing.

 

2.

I am aware of the cool air of the fan blowing on my skin.

Where does the sensation begin and end?

Well, where I feel it is on the far side of my skin, on the right side of the body. I say far side as if I'm currently inside the head. For now we will work from this paradigm. I feel the cool air on the outer layer of my skin, but am also experiencing it in thought, which feels to be inside the head. I am thinking about the sensation and also describing it, which is another way of experiencing it. The only way to not experience this anymore would be to move or turn the fan off, and forget about it. (although that's an assumption that anything can be truly forgotten, we also believe that memories are stored for later use in dreams)

 

I don't feel the cool air on the inside of the skin. It definitely does seem to stop there on the outer side, and then the non-corporeal experience in thoughts about it, which feels to be in the head. Is it possible for an experience to take place in two locations? I think quantum physics points to yes, but in this case I think it's more of a projected bi-location, all in thought, thoughts of it and thoughts about it.

 

But if a sensation can be projected to a location that feels to be in the outer portion of the body, who's to say the feeling of being in the head isn't also a projection?

 

3.

I am holding the phone in my hand (to read the ebook) and the question is - - is the sensation of holding the book the same as touching it, or is it one that's merely interpreted as a book because of what I know to be a book?

 

OK, my index finger is touching the back of the phone. It's smooth and hard, slides easily. Pictures of what the back looks like keeps popping up, but that's only giving me information like shiny and blue. The sensation of touch is not affected by this, and therefore separate from my concepts of phones.

 

Now though, is the sensation of it the same as touching it? Well I make a conscious effort to place the finger on the phone, and typically where the finger stops I receive a sensation of what the phone appears to feel like. Now in one distinction, this feeling would be relative to the size of my finger, and if my finger were the size of the ant it may be a completely different sensation altogether. So I can only work from the paradigm of a human with a normal sized and unblemished finger. However, no I can't say that the sensation is the same as touching. For example, if my finger was numb, I could touch the phone and not even know it. The touch happens with no thought to process it. For whatever reason, the finger does not continue to go through the phone, even if I can't feel it.