There's a thought or scenario really bothering me. Need different perspectives

[Nightwise]

Warning: Do not read this if you're very vulnerable to negative suggestions and ideas like myself. It can potentially really mess with you. (I know this may be asking Adam to not pick the apple from that one tree he wasn't supposed to pick from, but just don't read it if you feel vulnerable)

Hi

I'm in a vulnerable position right now. I'm going through what you could call a 'dark night of the soul'.

I tend to really catastrophize. A spiritual teacher called Shunyamurti has expressed something like that he says that things are only going to get darker from now on, and that we are at the end of a specific time cycle called 'Kali Yuga', and that the world will come to chaos in which people will be forced to suffer their karma until they have repaid all their karmic debt. (although there's also the perspective of you 'awakening through karma', that you can become awakened or enlightened yet still have karmic debt to repay, as karma is not the same as consciousness or awareness)

Perhaps that's not literally what he has said and I've filled in some of the blanks in my own fears, but I of course don't like the prospect of the world becoming a darker and darker place, and I especially don't like the prospect like I would be some kind of victim to my own karma. I'm sick and tired of feeling like a victim, and I want to feel like I have the power to take up my own responsibility and instead of being a victim I can become a person capable of rising to the occasion of his own circumstances and face the challenges of life with integrity, surrender and courage.

There's some hope in that there is light appearing the darkness. Some spiritual teachers that I see that radiate peace and love. People turning more towards spiruality, and so forth. But as of right now I'm in a lot of pain and suffering, and with these kind of emotions there comes a lot of fear in regards to catastrophic or dark kinds of thoughts and images in my mind.

I'm starting to become okay with the possibility that there's going to be a lot of suffering in my life, but I want to be able to rise to the occasion and not be a victim to it. I want to belong to the group that chooses to awaken. Thank god there are at least examples here on earth that represent a higher possibility.

What do you guys think about this? It's really tough sometimes to let go of some of my catastrophic thoughts about the future. Whatever may or may not happen in the future, I'm tired of feeling like I'm being held hostage by my own mind and my own dark thoughts and fantasies. I used to be able to have a lot more distance from my thoughts, but right now I often just can't seem to let go of them.

Shunyamurti also proposed that Costa Rica was going to be the safe haven on earth whilst the rest of the world suffered destruction and chaos. If this were to be true, this also makes me think: what about those who are born in circumstances that they won't be able to make it to Costa Rica, or what about those who are trapped in prison. This almost feels like some kind of black-or-white scenario. Either you make it to the promised land or face your downfall. That just doesn't seem right to me.

I don't like this idea of things being a 'black-or-white' scenario. Either you face circumstances that are too dark, heavy and chaotic to get out of it consciously, you would have to face your karma and therefore be 'forced' to get out of the ego, something like an Eckhart Tolle awakening, or you would be lucky and 'make it to the promised land' and find circumstances that are light and uplifting enough to go through a conscious process of awakening. But that doesn't make sense to me, because what if you're a child who is already born in circumstances that are too chaotic for that child to ever become capable of even finding the means and resources to 'go to the promised land'? That just doesn't seem right to me

This is one of the ideas that really messed me up the past couple of months. It makes me feel like I'm a victim unless maybe I make some desperate attempt to find a place where the circumstances are light and uplifting enough for me to awaken. But this kind of perspective doesn't sit right with me intuitively. I feel like that just doesn't make sense. It's too much black-or-white. Like either it's too late and you've passed the point of no return and now you will have to be forced to suffer until your ego is eradicated, or you are fortunate enough to find circumstances and an environment that will allow you to awaken without being dragged down by the heavy pull of chaos and suffering.

But that idea just doesn't sit right with me because it would almost imply that you would need to make some desperate attempt to escape to another place and that that would fix all your problems. That just doesn't make sense to me. If the ground from which you precede is desperation, I don't really feel like you would be able to transform yourself no matter where you end up or try to escape to. That just doesn't make sense.

I just don't want to feel like I am a victim and it is just really important to me to believe that suffering and pain has its purpose so I don't have to resist it or try to run away from it, because I notice that trying to escape suffering whether it's through internal or external means only makes things worse. I come to some degree of peace when I just let everything be no matter what the circumstances are or how I feel.

What do you guys think about all of this? I really could use some perspectives to help me expand my mind on the situation. I really fear the future and what could be in store for both me and the world, and of course, as it goes, being fearful of the future means you suffer in the present. So I need to let go of that thought. Perhaps it could help to get some other thoughts or perspectives to give some counterbalance, or perhaps letting go can't be done with different kinds of thoughts, but nevertheless I choose to inquire about different perspectives and ideas that you guys may have about what scenario's or possibilities lay before me or us in the future.

Many thanks in advance

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Nightwise

[Nahm]

@Nightwise

How are you on the fundamentals like getting enough sleep, eating a clean diet, and daily meditation?

[allislove]

First thing I would stop listening to Shunyamurti.
Second thing what @Nahm said, additionally a cold shower and Wim Hof breathing every day.
Definitely should bring more clarity  

[inFlow]

Stop poisoning yourself with other peoples negativity.

[Nightwise]

22 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Nightwise

How are you on the fundamentals like getting enough sleep, eating a clean diet, and daily meditation?

Not doing something like a daily meditation, certainly not the last couple of months because I've been very distraught, although I might start doing something like that whilst walking. I tend to be more attentive in meditation whilst walking, sitting still my awareness usually tends to get too blunt. Sleeping is difficult in these times because it's quite hot. I do pay good attention to my diet, though.

@inFlow

Yes, I've stopped watching Shunyamurti because I've noticed it's too much for me to take. I notice that I'm very vulnerable to ideas and suggestions. I know what Shunyamurti proposes is merely a perspective, one out of many and that even spiritually advanced people contradict themselves in their reality about existence and the future, and that even if there is some truth in what Shunyamurti says that I tend to then magnify, exaggerate and create additional stories around it as far as the negative aspects are concerned, and then I tend to disregard the positives, but yet it's hard to let go of such a thought when I'm in a deeply fearful state like I have been the past couple of months. 

I must say I regret having made this topic on the forum without first giving a warning for people who are vulnerable to negative suggestions like myself, because I feel bad about putting the same kind of fearful thoughts into another person's mind, although I do feel I do not 'create' fear in them but merely evoke what was already there.

[Nahm]

Something to consider... it does appear we can be vulnerable to influence, ideas and suggestions, and we surely can be. However, we’re actually only experiencing our own thoughts & perspectives about what someone says. One of the best benefits from daily morning meditation is getting some space between awareness and arising thoughts, which is the opposite direction, or, no longer being influenced. When we do this, the misunderstandings we’ve previously filed away arise, and emotional misunderstanding empties out, and clarity, focus, concentration, joy, love, inner peace...our being, remains. 

[Nightwise]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Something to consider... it does appear we can be vulnerable to influence, ideas and suggestions, and we surely can be. However, we’re actually only experiencing our own thoughts & perspectives about what someone says. One of the best benefits from daily morning meditation is getting some space between awareness and arising thoughts, which is the opposite direction, or, no longer being influenced. When we do this, the misunderstandings we’ve previously filed away arise, and emotional misunderstanding empties out, and clarity, focus, concentration, joy, love, inner peace...our being, remains. 

Thanks Nahm. I like your response, as I feel it to be both helpful and true at the same time. My gratitude for your reply .

I don't have a secluded time for meditation, especially not sitting meditation (somehow that rarely works out for me as my attention seems to get very blunt), but I do try to be mindful and conscious throughout the day, and perhaps I can start including a daily walking meditation, as that seems to be working out for me better.

Or I can start meditating in the library. Don't ask me why, it's this really weird thing that I have, but I seem to be able to meditate a lot better in big public spaces like a library or something. Weird, huh?

[Nahm]

@Nightwise

Thank you, much appreciated. 

Walking meditation is great. There’s an outline of one on here you might like. 

4 hours ago, Nightwise said:

somehow that rarely works out for me as my attention seems to get very blunt

A think that wording might have some insight to be mined from it. It can be realized that there really isn’t a past, present, and future. Like you said, if you worry for the future, you suffer now. Notice there is never any direct experience of a past or future.There is only the thought that there is a past or future. This is because reality is an infinite being, appearing so perfectly, that we derive, figure, or assume, that there is a past or future. It’s very convincing obviously, but can be seen through in actually attempting to ‘go to’ this past or future. 

This brings to light that experience is of the ‘unfolding’ if you will of this ‘single’ eternal now moment, which only makes it seem like there is a past & future. If you consider this, and apply it to what you mentioned, that ‘my attention seems to get very blunt’, you might find success down the road with sitting meditation, by removing the ‘my’ aspect of attention, and relaxing in the recognition that there just is attention. Without claiming, taking credit for, or taking responsibility for attention, some weight is lifted regarding any perspectives that it should be any certain way. Likewise, sitting meditation could then be seen from a different perspective...that it isn’t supposed to work for ‘me’, that it is the relaxation from all that is ‘me’.

I wouldn’t push, or force sitting meditation if walking med is better for where you’re at, but it’s something to consider. Arguably, we can go deeper in sitting meditation without the activity of walking & perception in walking meditation, and going deeper is more ‘space’ if you will, between awareness, and arising thoughts. This space results in us realizing we are feeling our perspectives & interpretations, of what someone is saying, rather than what they are saying causing how we feel. They have their feeling too so to speak, and we can leave them to feel their own perspectives. 

Also, there is much to be said for dropping something the instant it is recognized not to resonate, rather than to continue to give it attention. I think that again, sitting meditation can be more effective for a more profound letting go than walking meditation. Whatever serves you where you’re at is best imo, and perhaps one leads to the other. 

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

5 hours ago, Nightwise said:

Or I can start meditating in the library. Don't ask me why, it's this really weird thing that I have, but I seem to be able to meditate a lot better in big public spaces like a library or something. Weird, huh?

Any space that evokes more of a 'belly centered' quality for me will most often allow the intellectual center the space to settle down into just a receptive condition,,,, The flexibility of doing spontaneous 20 minute Centering Prayer meditations works out good for me. It's argued that just 2 of these /day has An accumulative effect.,,

[Nightwise]

Thanks @Nahm and @Zigzag Idiot. I'll consider and remember what you said about sitting meditation, Nahm.

[Artsu]

Things are going to get dark. Wars etc.

Why fear karma? You pay back the bad you've done, get paid for the good you've done.

People aren't going to all of a sudden pay for their karma. I don't see how that could happen. But eventually people will and will become morally pure. So people paying their karma is good, certainly better than continuing to accumulate bad karma. But i don't see why it would happen soon.

People, as far as i know, pay their karma when they are ready. They need to let themselves feel remorse.

[cobalto]

I think I understand where you are: you realize that material existence leads to suffering, and that suffering can be enormous and without escape. It is a labyrinth that you have to get out of. how? well, many spiritual teachers propose that by lowering the ego and moving towards enlightenment, suffering diminishes. You see the sense and the logic, but you have not been able to experience it directly, so the suffering and anguish can even increase. solution: experience it, because it is something absolutely real. methods that I know of: meditation and psychedelics. also intelligence to choose the vital paths that take you more towards that side. on the other hand, to me anyone who says that this catastrophe and this earthquake is going to happen and everything is going to be horrible except in Costa Rica .... we don't have to add much more, right?

[Johnny5]