Are Zen Koans Effective?

[JKG]

I just recently read a book about Zen. The Author talked about that in some Zen traditions Koans are used as a tool for reaching Enlightenment. It would be very challenging for the students to grasp the meaning of the Koans due to the fact that they only can be grasped with a non-dual awareness.

Koans seem interesting to me, but are they really effective? Or are the 'normal' methods like do nothing, strong determination sitting or self inquiry better? Has somebody experiences with Koans?

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

14 hours ago, quantum said:

I just recently read a book about Zen. The Author talked about that in some Zen traditions Koans are used as a tool for reaching Enlightenment. It would be very challenging for the students to grasp the meaning of the Koans due to the fact that they only can be grasped with a non-dual awareness.

Koans seem interesting to me, but are they really effective? Or are the 'normal' methods like do nothing, strong determination sitting or self inquiry better? Has somebody experiences with Koans?

There are different koans that are used for different purposes, some of them are like self inquiry. Bringing equanimity to a confused mind is one of the most awsome effects I have ever experienced but that was during regular self inquiry, I literally laughed out loud for about 10-15 minutes so badly that my mother thaught I was insane. Shinzen calls it meaningful meaninglessness and it sure was meaningless and it sure as hell was meaningful.

[JKG]

16 hours ago, Makis said:

If I was a zen master, I would not answer your question. It is more about just do it or don't. 

your are tricky. Ok, I will do it.

12 hours ago, Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj said:

There are different koans that are used for different purposes, some of them are like self inquiry. Bringing equanimity to a confused mind is one of the most awsome effects I have ever experienced but that was during regular self inquiry, I literally laughed out loud for about 10-15 minutes so badly that my mother thaught I was insane. Shinzen calls it meaningful meaninglessness and it sure was meaningless and it sure as hell was meaningful.

Do you have an example of such a koan?

[Matthew Lamot]

@quantum

They are effective, but they are a very long and indirect path which is more related to personal development rather than Self-Realization.  Self-Enquiry is direct and you can begin seeing the illusion of the ego in a matter of minutes.

Shinzen Young admits to becoming Self-Realized using self inquiry.  His meditation practiced produced equanimity, but this is not the same as permanent Self-Realization

[Eelco1981]

@quantum Koans may lead to more rational thinking which you don't want. One day you might stumble upon a koan that stops your rational thinking, that opens your eyes. But that is more question of luck I guess. Better is to do the hard work of self inquiry.

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

11 hours ago, quantum said:

your are tricky. Ok, I will do it.

Do you have an example of such a koan?

Actually no I haven't but check out Shikzen Youngs video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI4seVg0xjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcTqXAD7pvM

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

I have not tried doing it and I intend on keeping my Self Inquiry. Shinzen Young told me that Rinzai Zen probably has the most enlightenment per capita so yes koans are probably realy effective. But the thing is that it fits the intuitive persons and everyone is not that intuitive so it happens that people get lost in Rinzai Zen not knowing wtf they are doing for years...