Is there a way out of suffering?

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, inFlow said:

@Someone here Using physical force to move your body one can perceive as suffering. Have you ever been so lazy that you suffered getting up?

Comment & picture go together so well.

[Someone here]

16 hours ago, inFlow said:

@Someone here Using physical force to move your body one can perceive as suffering. Have you ever been so lazy that you suffered getting up?

LOL yeah sometimes. But It's  not what you feel 90 % of the time.   Maybe when you get really really old.. Even breathing or being aware could be no longer effortless and somehow painful to you.  But that's not the case  for the majority.  Some philosophers like Arthur Schopenhauer claim that everything is suffering.. That existence itself is an evil phenomenon and it would be Better if nothing existd at all. Typically those philosophers are considered nihilists and most people don't want to hold pessimistic views on life.  It's interesting that Buddhism is deeply nihilistic religion.  The four noble truths 1 life is suffering.  2 there is a cause for suffering. 3 the cause of suffering is "desire". 4 the end of suffering is desirelessness and detachment. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Someone here

[inFlow]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

that everything is suffering..

Well it actually is. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Nihilists just can't put nihilism on nihilism itself, which would eat itself.

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's interesting that Buddhism is deeply nihilistic religion.

This is also true.

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

the end of suffering is desirelessness and detachment. 

This is true, but you have to accept suffering to walk this earth, to play here. When you realize who you are suffering still happens, but you just no longer attach that much. The suffering seems so small compared to the scope of the entire universe that it just becomes funny. Ego is suffering, not the Self.

[Someone here]

On 8/12/2020 at 2:34 PM, zeroISinfinity said:

Happiness is inherit in Being. 

There really Isn't any suffering. Stop being donkey recognise yourself. 

This may explain why i get triggered when I hear that kinda nonsense.   This might be heartbreaking for sensitive people.. But I just wanna share and you can find even crazier forms of suffering in this world that makes you totally convinced that the universe basically doesn't give a shit about us and is completely indifferent to humans and all creatures.  The universe allows all forms of different emotions from extreme happiness and hedonistic life to extreme painful and tough life.  Both are essential.   Once this kid grows up.. Go tell him "happiness is inherit in Being".. He might say something or do something very nasty to you and I will not be responsible lol. 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Someone here

[Johnny5]

It's never going to make sense from the personal point of view.

The personal point of view IS the suffering.

[gswva]

@Johnny5 Meaningless lonely existence or eternal suffering. Pick your poison.

 

[Johnny5]

12 minutes ago, gswva said:

@Johnny5 Meaningless lonely existence or eternal suffering. Pick your poison.

 

Not sure I follow.... I think you got the wrong idea about the impersonal life.

In fact any idea about it is guaranteed to be wrong.

[Member]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

This may explain why i get triggered when I hear that kinda nonsense.   This might be heartbreaking for sensitive people.. But I just wanna share and you can find even crazier forms of suffering in this world that makes you totally convinced that the universe basically doesn't give a shit about us and is completely indifferent to humans and all creatures.

Of course, people avoid thinking about this because it's more convenient to say that everything is perfect. Hell and the universe is created by humans.

[Luciphene]

On 11/08/2020 at 8:15 AM, Someone here said:

There is a lot of suffering that one can experience in this life. Some people are lucky they experience less suffering and some people are just fated to be in the middle of some extreme shit like starving kids in Africa etc.   Suffering exists so let's not waste time arguing about whether it exists or not.. My question is there a salvation? A permanent end to all forms of suffering?  If so what it is?  Because I don't think there is such a way except permanent annihilation. 

Please make your response non - classical and nuanced because it's so easy to deconstruct woo woo unrealistic answers. Thanks 

 

I don’t know if the end of suffering feels different or takes different forms in different people. This is just how it worked and works for me. 
 

The way out of suffering is through your fear. Conquer fear, and you eradicate suffering. 

[RedLine]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

Pain, of course, is purely relative. If you're conscious enough, there will be not difference between pain and pleasure.

How do you even know that pain isn't pleasure, and pleasure isn't pain?

Where in the universe does it say that pain is painful?

If you really focus on pain while it's happening, you can start to notice that it's not actually painful, it's just a feeling.

Try poking yourself with a needle and actually FEEL it without the ego's drama.

That is true.

But then a question arise: Why to pursue enlightment if everything is pleasure?

You could answer: because we are not aware of that.

So it would implies pain is pain until you are aware, after that pain=pleaure. Otherwise it would not make sense pursue enlightment if everything is already pleasure. So pain exist (for those who are not aware).

 

As you can see nobody can deal with the paradox.

 

As you can see your answer does not make sense. You are always trap in your subjective bias until you admit you don't know the Mistery (the relationship between the Absolute and the Relative), you dont have the final answer to explain Universe ,as the greatest mistics in history humbely did.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by RedLine

[RedLine]

Aham so God created men to "see himself". To see others. He created the illusion of separated self.

 

An now we say life is suffer due to self separation and we want to go back to God, to Unity, wtf

If God=Good=Unity, he wouldn't create separate selfs=suffer

 

You say you got this idea through enlightment, so it is experience, it is not about words, words cannot explain that. This is bullshit. The misiticism in its deepest form = Nothing (the negation of everything). If you are taking about God or Love you are talking about something, you elaborate that through language, it is philosophy not misiticism so it is liable to be falsaying. You cannot get insight through misitics because insights are something and "God experience" is absolute NOTHING. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by RedLine

[0bserver]

On 13/08/2020 at 2:17 AM, Nahm said:

Yes, the idea of reincarnation is not the direct experience of it, just like everything else. Direct experience requires seeing through beliefs. Direct experience is ‘correct’, because it is direct experience. If direct experience is deception, then the direct experience is that of deception. There’s no direct experience of a brain, sans a thought, ‘brain’. The ‘brain’ appears to, but does not produce. What is can’t be predicted, it’s already what is. 100%. ?

I understand that direct experience is the only thing we know is real, whether it's a delusion or not, direct experience by definition is true. This doesn't explain how you were able to experience reincarnation. It's an idea that requires you to think about concepts like the past/future, death/birth, etc. How can you say that you can only trust direct experience while simultaneously believing stuff like reincarnation?

[Johnny5]

26 minutes ago, RedLine said:

That is true.

But then a question arise: Why to pursue enlightment if everything is pleasure?

You could answer: because we are not aware of that.

So it would implies pain is pain until you are aware, after that pain=pleaure. Otherwise it would not make sense pursue enlightment if everything is already pleasure. So pain exist (for those who are not aware).

 

As you can see nobody can deal with the paradox.

 

As you can see your answer does not make sense. You are always trap in your subjective bias until you admit you don't know the Mistery (the relationship between the Absolute and the Relative), you dont have the final answer to explain Universe ,as the greatest mistics in history humbely did.

It's kind of like the young lady/old hag picture, where you can interpret it both ways:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/53761789271897856/

 

Both interpretations are valid, but no interpretation is fundamentally true.

Pain is an interpretation. Valid, but not true. Just whatever you make of it, nothing more and nothing less. And same with everything else.

So it's not that it's an actual mystery in the sense that there is something about it that you can't know. Rather it is a mystery in the sense that there is nothing to know about it, and whatever you do know about it is ultimately not true.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Johnny5

[RedLine]

4 minutes ago, Johnny5 said:

It's kind of like the young lady/old hag picture, where you can interpret it both ways:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/53761789271897856/

 

Both interpretations are valid, but no interpretation is fundamentally true.

Pain is an interpretation. Valid, but not true. Just whatever you make of it, nothing more and nothing less. And same with everything else.

 

I can only see a young lady. I can't see the other woman you say. So the old lady does not exist for me. Literally.

 

Same with suffer, if you are not aware that suffer does not exist, then suffer exist

 

That is direct experience, not reasoning, that's what it is about right?

Edited August 16, 2020 by RedLine

[Johnny5]

Just now, RedLine said:

I just can see a young lady. I can't se the other woman you say. So the old lady does not exist for me. Literally.

 

Same with suffer, if you are not aware that suffer does not exist, then suffer exist

 

That is direct experience, not reasoning, that's what it is about right?

Agree 100% , but then that means it is only a young lady if you insist.

And indeed you may not have a choice about it. No argument there.

[Nahm]

26 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

I understand that direct experience is the only thing we know is real, whether it's a delusion or not, direct experience by definition is true. This doesn't explain how you were able to experience reincarnation. It's an idea that requires you to think about concepts like the past/future, death/birth, etc. How can you say that you can only trust direct experience while simultaneously believing stuff like reincarnation?

You’re saying this is a belief and you’d have to directly experience this. That is what I am also saying. 

[0bserver]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

You’re saying this is a belief and you’d have to directly experience this. That is what I am also saying. 

What you're saying doesn't make much sense. Reincarnation is not something that exists in the direct experience, unless you are just redefining words ant not explaining them. 

[Nahm]

@0bserver

You can directly experience this, and it makes an incredible amount of sense. You can also say it’s a belief & disregard it. 

[0bserver]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@0bserver

You can directly experience this, and it makes an incredible amount of sense. You can also say it’s a belief & disregard it. 

How can one experience this other without dying and losing their memory? What is your definition of reincarnation exactly, is it the standard definition: "Reincarnation is the philosophical or religious belief that the non-physical essence of a living being starts a new life in a different physical form or body after biological death."? Based on this definition there would be no way for you to know that you've experienced reincarnation, there is no memory carried over into your next life.

[Nahm]

@0bserver

See through that one is alive & experiencing, and that there is past & future. Understand, or recognize rather, what memory is. All definitions are relative appearance, only direct experience will do for what you’re asking.